VOC BLADES: A comprehensive look

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 19th May 2015, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

@ Erik: Thank you for posting this one. Now we have an example from before 1903! As we know Bataks allready made touristic items at the end of the 19th century, this is not the case here.
I don't think VOC marked blades where allready seen as treasures in swordcollectors collections.

I'm not sure about the provenance of this one.
A long time ago I copied the picture from a Dutch museum database. However I wasn't smart enough to write down from which database I copied it from.
I can not find so quickly where I got it from, but it's worth showing.

As far as I can remember, I thought it was coming out of the famous Visser collection, but I'm not sure.

Maurice

Salaams Maurice, Refering back to your post 44 ....I think from this source please see https://www.nmm.nl/zoeken-in-de-coll...detail/316391/ Sorry I couldnt get a translation...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

midelburgo · 30th January 2019, 12:38 PM

Recently I made a post including a Spanish-Philippine hilt with a blade marked 1736 and the symbol from the Amsterdam chamber of the VOC.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24137

I also mention there a couple of threads with VOC blades, not shown here:

Keris:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ies+Company%29

Japanese:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ies+Company%29

Gavin Nugent · 4th February 2019, 10:44 PM

To add to the diversity of regions, I've a simple early old Guom of tradtional form here with a VOC blade too.

Gavin

JeffS · 28th March 2023, 11:00 AM

Another to add, similar opi to examples in post #55. This blade had deep rust and very corroded, it took a lot of work to remove. Quite the surprise to find the markings. The 1741 date can be read on both sides but the VOC logo with Amsterdam stamp mostly eroded from one side but legible on the other. This is a double edged sword, same three grooves at vase of blade as examples from Tropenmuseum. Sort of a colonial full circle with the Dutch East Indies coin from 1945...

Gavin Nugent · 29th March 2023, 12:29 AM

A vietnamese Guom with VOC blade... no blade images currently on file...

Jim McDougall · 29th March 2023, 09:31 PM

Thank you Gav and Jeff for reviving this thread!
When I began this in 2014, my goal was to learn more on the blades with VOC markings, and how widely diffused they were through the 'Indies' and Asia.
Also, I was curious on the convention of placing the year adjacent to the VOC balemark along with initial of the chamber (there were 6) of origin.
Most common was of course the 'A' for Amsterdam.

Most of these blades were hanger type, mostly on 'cutlass' type swords, it seems these were of course likely in use on the vessels. As typical these were held in arms stores and not 'issued' individually. However, their profound diffusion among native populations suggest these were often traded.

In "Arsenal of the World". J.P. Puype 1996 (pp.47-50, 'VOC Under Arms', C.O.van der Meij);
"...the VOC used edged weapons, albeit to a lesser extent. The swords that were given to sea captains were mostly ceremonial weapons. Soldiers that went to Ceylon got a backsword. These backswords were called 'pedarme' were thought to be more useful when climbing mountain (?) or marching through forests. There are by the way, various opinions about the way these swords looked".

As far as I know, there have not been examples of such an arming sword with backsword blade known with the VOC mark, so it adds to the topic of the marking of VOC on blades.

On p. 50 (Puype op. cit) it is noted that Asian weapons were highly sought as collectible by rich merchants who bought these and all kinds of exotic items as curiosities. While it is known that VOC troops never used native weapons, preferring their own European forms, it seems possible they might have traded the European edged weapons for native items. This was a common circumstance in colonial situations. As seen by most references on arms of these times, the emphasis was always on guns, and mention of edged weapons is almost incidental.

What I am curious about is why the year invariably in line with the VOC and kamer initial? The latest year I have seen is 1793 (VOC ended in 1796), the earliest 1736. In contrast, the English counterpart, their East India Co. (VEIC) never marked the blades of their edged weapons, only guns and locks (aside from bayonets) with their balemark.

I have understood these blades were either Solingen or made in Holland by perhaps German makers based there. The hilting seems to have been in Dutch shops.
There was a central warehouse at Kloveniersburgwal called East India House, as the arsenal for all weapons, but wonder if appropriate stamping of blades to each chamber was done there or in such location in chamber itself?

Gavin Nugent · 1st April 2023, 04:43 AM

Jim, thank you for your learned insights here.

Unfortunatly I cannot fully read the date on this Guom example... 17 is there and a partial 0.

The Kamer stamp is partial too... looks like "H".

There are numerous other European stamps to the blade on both sides, Equal armed crosses at each end, effectively encapsulating the date markings. There are crescent symbols that are perhaps "moons" and some other hints of markings I've yet to reveal under the thick old build up on the blade.

Length, blade is 64cms.

When considering this Preanger Gobang I had many years ago with a blade just under 51cm long, it is easy to see how the blades were trimmed to fit native applications.
Further to this, the "H" on the Guom is not large like the "A" on the Gobang and it is below the VOC markings, not above.
What all the orientation means or leads to, I cannot say.

Gavin

28th March 2023, 11:00 AM	#4
JeffS Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 441	Another to add, similar opi to examples in post #55. This blade had deep rust and very corroded, it took a lot of work to remove. Quite the surprise to find the markings. The 1741 date can be read on both sides but the VOC logo with Amsterdam stamp mostly eroded from one side but legible on the other. This is a double edged sword, same three grooves at vase of blade as examples from Tropenmuseum. Sort of a colonial full circle with the Dutch East Indies coin from 1945... Attached Images

1st April 2023, 04:43 AM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Jim, thank you for your learned insights here. Unfortunatly I cannot fully read the date on this Guom example... 17 is there and a partial 0. The Kamer stamp is partial too... looks like "H". There are numerous other European stamps to the blade on both sides, Equal armed crosses at each end, effectively encapsulating the date markings. There are crescent symbols that are perhaps "moons" and some other hints of markings I've yet to reveal under the thick old build up on the blade. Length, blade is 64cms. When considering this Preanger Gobang I had many years ago with a blade just under 51cm long, it is easy to see how the blades were trimmed to fit native applications. Further to this, the "H" on the Guom is not large like the "A" on the Gobang and it is below the VOC markings, not above. What all the orientation means or leads to, I cannot say. Gavin Attached Images Last edited by Gavin Nugent; 1st April 2023 at 04:53 AM. Reason: additional data

30th January 2019, 12:38 PM	#2
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 280	Recently I made a post including a Spanish-Philippine hilt with a blade marked 1736 and the symbol from the Amsterdam chamber of the VOC. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24137 I also mention there a couple of threads with VOC blades, not shown here: Keris: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ies+Company%29 Japanese: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ies+Company%29

4th February 2019, 10:44 PM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	To add to the diversity of regions, I've a simple early old Guom of tradtional form here with a VOC blade too. Gavin

29th March 2023, 12:29 AM	#5
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	A vietnamese Guom with VOC blade... no blade images currently on file... Attached Images

29th March 2023, 09:31 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,672	Thank you Gav and Jeff for reviving this thread! When I began this in 2014, my goal was to learn more on the blades with VOC markings, and how widely diffused they were through the 'Indies' and Asia. Also, I was curious on the convention of placing the year adjacent to the VOC balemark along with initial of the chamber (there were 6) of origin. Most common was of course the 'A' for Amsterdam. Most of these blades were hanger type, mostly on 'cutlass' type swords, it seems these were of course likely in use on the vessels. As typical these were held in arms stores and not 'issued' individually. However, their profound diffusion among native populations suggest these were often traded. In "Arsenal of the World". J.P. Puype 1996 (pp.47-50, 'VOC Under Arms', C.O.van der Meij); "...the VOC used edged weapons, albeit to a lesser extent. The swords that were given to sea captains were mostly ceremonial weapons. Soldiers that went to Ceylon got a backsword. These backswords were called 'pedarme' were thought to be more useful when climbing mountain (?) or marching through forests. There are by the way, various opinions about the way these swords looked". As far as I know, there have not been examples of such an arming sword with backsword blade known with the VOC mark, so it adds to the topic of the marking of VOC on blades. On p. 50 (Puype op. cit) it is noted that Asian weapons were highly sought as collectible by rich merchants who bought these and all kinds of exotic items as curiosities. While it is known that VOC troops never used native weapons, preferring their own European forms, it seems possible they might have traded the European edged weapons for native items. This was a common circumstance in colonial situations. As seen by most references on arms of these times, the emphasis was always on guns, and mention of edged weapons is almost incidental. What I am curious about is why the year invariably in line with the VOC and kamer initial? The latest year I have seen is 1793 (VOC ended in 1796), the earliest 1736. In contrast, the English counterpart, their East India Co. (VEIC) never marked the blades of their edged weapons, only guns and locks (aside from bayonets) with their balemark. I have understood these blades were either Solingen or made in Holland by perhaps German makers based there. The hilting seems to have been in Dutch shops. There was a central warehouse at Kloveniersburgwal called East India House, as the arsenal for all weapons, but wonder if appropriate stamping of blades to each chamber was done there or in such location in chamber itself?