BASKET HILT FOR ID

Jim McDougall · 15th May 2015, 07:39 PM

I would suggest this hilt is most likely a Spanish Colonial contrivance, and seems to correspond in degree to the shellguard espada we eventually attributed to Brazil and South American provenance. These have similar dots and lined profile in a radiused shell configuration in the motif.
The heavy swirl and domed rivets etc. also remind me of 19th c. Spanish colonial 'faux court' swords. The narrow blade aperture looks like it would be for one of these kind of stiff narrow dress type blades.

Aside from perhaps 'theatrical' potential, the Spanish colonial seems plausible. There may be a potential for a fencing type weapon as well.

Jim McDougall · 23rd May 2015, 05:23 AM

Those were just my comments as per your request, not satisfactory?
I'd be interested in your opinion on the hilt, or anybody out there. It is an interesting example and I think worth at least some comment or response.

M ELEY · 23rd May 2015, 10:34 PM

I agree with Jim wholeheartedly. Spanish colonial, mid- to late 19th. The basket work with raised rivets exactly like the espadas in Brincherhoff's Spanish colonial sword book (pg 176, plate 174/175 for rivet-constructed swords). I've often compared the recurved bars, with their primitive line design/star decorations and unique raised rivets to early Mexican spurs as far as similarity in design.

Jim, I remember you helping me identify my Brazilian cutlass from years ago, that piece decorated with similar designs...

Jim McDougall · 24th May 2015, 12:29 AM

Thank you so much Mark!!!

Yes those cutlasses were truly the link to the southern Americas version of the espada ancha, and were classic examples of the rural charm and design of these Spanish Colonial weapons. The rivets on this, as you point out, also remind me of the so called 'round tang' espada anchas with the four branch guards (Adams, '85).
All the best,
Jim

Cerjak · 24th May 2015, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thank you so much Mark!!!

Yes those cutlasses were truly the link to the southern Americas version of the espada ancha, and were classic examples of the rural charm and design of these Spanish Colonial weapons. The rivets on this, as you point out, also remind me of the so called 'round tang' espada anchas with the four branch guards (Adams, '85).
All the best,
Jim

Hello Jim
Thank you for your comment I have spent many time in research to find an example with similar hilt without result ,if you have a picture for a similar sword I would be happy to see it.
Best
Cerjak

M ELEY · 24th May 2015, 11:31 PM

Finding an exact copy of these types of swords isn't going to happen! Colonial types were fashioned by local blacksmiths, who often used various sword parts and hand-wrought pieces of metal to make their creations! I've often half-heartedly jested that colonial espadas are true 'folk art', being that no two are alike! Yes, there were some of a specific pattern, such as the so called Caribbean cuphilts and such, but many are the 'Frankensteins' of the sword world. I love them for this quality, but others may not. If you happen to come across Brinckerhoff's "Spanish Military Weapons in Colonial America 1700-1821", you will see the decorations, designs, forging techniques and generalized patterns of which we speak. That book is hard to find these days, however...

Jim McDougall · 25th May 2015, 03:35 AM

Cerjak, thank you so much for responding. I was wondering if these comments were of interest to you, and was hoping you might add your own thoughts of what the hilt might be. Perhaps if you might add any data on provenance of the piece and what context it might have been from, also it is always helpful to know what resources you used in your research.

As Mark has well explained, these kinds of hilts have as many variations as there were artisans creating them, and the theme of these pierced dots in striated fashion were as noted found on a number of Spanish colonial hilts of the 19th century.

I will add images of some examples which might illustrate what we are describing, but an exact match is unlikely as these were not fabricated using a pattern book, but artisans interpretations of known forms and functional elements using often 'recycled parts'. I have seen such pieces using old 18th century dragoon blades, three bar cavalry guards and briquette grips, among other examples.

Would be interested to hear your views.

Best regards,
Jim

15th May 2015, 07:39 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	I would suggest this hilt is most likely a Spanish Colonial contrivance, and seems to correspond in degree to the shellguard espada we eventually attributed to Brazil and South American provenance. These have similar dots and lined profile in a radiused shell configuration in the motif. The heavy swirl and domed rivets etc. also remind me of 19th c. Spanish colonial 'faux court' swords. The narrow blade aperture looks like it would be for one of these kind of stiff narrow dress type blades. Aside from perhaps 'theatrical' potential, the Spanish colonial seems plausible. There may be a potential for a fencing type weapon as well.

23rd May 2015, 05:23 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Those were just my comments as per your request, not satisfactory? I'd be interested in your opinion on the hilt, or anybody out there. It is an interesting example and I think worth at least some comment or response.

23rd May 2015, 10:34 PM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	I agree with Jim wholeheartedly. Spanish colonial, mid- to late 19th. The basket work with raised rivets exactly like the espadas in Brincherhoff's Spanish colonial sword book (pg 176, plate 174/175 for rivet-constructed swords). I've often compared the recurved bars, with their primitive line design/star decorations and unique raised rivets to early Mexican spurs as far as similarity in design. Jim, I remember you helping me identify my Brazilian cutlass from years ago, that piece decorated with similar designs...

24th May 2015, 12:29 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Thank you so much Mark!!! Yes those cutlasses were truly the link to the southern Americas version of the espada ancha, and were classic examples of the rural charm and design of these Spanish Colonial weapons. The rivets on this, as you point out, also remind me of the so called 'round tang' espada anchas with the four branch guards (Adams, '85). All the best, Jim

24th May 2015, 11:31 PM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Finding an exact copy of these types of swords isn't going to happen! Colonial types were fashioned by local blacksmiths, who often used various sword parts and hand-wrought pieces of metal to make their creations! I've often half-heartedly jested that colonial espadas are true 'folk art', being that no two are alike! Yes, there were some of a specific pattern, such as the so called Caribbean cuphilts and such, but many are the 'Frankensteins' of the sword world. I love them for this quality, but others may not. If you happen to come across Brinckerhoff's "Spanish Military Weapons in Colonial America 1700-1821", you will see the decorations, designs, forging techniques and generalized patterns of which we speak. That book is hard to find these days, however...

25th May 2015, 03:35 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Cerjak, thank you so much for responding. I was wondering if these comments were of interest to you, and was hoping you might add your own thoughts of what the hilt might be. Perhaps if you might add any data on provenance of the piece and what context it might have been from, also it is always helpful to know what resources you used in your research. As Mark has well explained, these kinds of hilts have as many variations as there were artisans creating them, and the theme of these pierced dots in striated fashion were as noted found on a number of Spanish colonial hilts of the 19th century. I will add images of some examples which might illustrate what we are describing, but an exact match is unlikely as these were not fabricated using a pattern book, but artisans interpretations of known forms and functional elements using often 'recycled parts'. I have seen such pieces using old 18th century dragoon blades, three bar cavalry guards and briquette grips, among other examples. Would be interested to hear your views. Best regards, Jim