Earliest Use of Paired Crescent Moons on Solingen Blades

Iain · 16th April 2015, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulfberth

Hi all,

I found another one, described as a 17th century schiavona.
Jim , Iain , any thoughts on the blade ?
Altough the crescent moons are not that visible in the picture, the shape of the blade and the fullers resembles tha kaskara.

kind regards

Ulfberth

Not seeing an image.

ulfberth · 16th April 2015, 11:56 AM

Jim McDougall · 16th April 2015, 03:29 PM

Ulfberth, thank you so much for your ongoing support in this discussion and for adding such valuable examples. These are excellent in our look into the similarities/differences in the use of crescent moons in Solingen, followed in other cultural spheres.

It would seem that in North Africa, the talismanic and magical imbuements of these faced crescent moons was well integrated into the symbolisms of tribal folk religions. That coupled with the special attention given by traders to these marks as indicators of high quality blades seem rather a 'shoe in' for incorporating them into subsequent native versions of the blades.

In this outstanding schiavona example, the blade is indeed central triple fuller and the moons in the familiar positions below the outside fullers.
It has long been clear that blades for schiavona were often supplied to North Italian makers in instances from Solingen.
While the competition between major centers in Italy, Germany and Styria was well established, in my opinion, it seems unlikely that Solingen blades would have been required in Italy as early as the date of this hilt. Naturally if the sword was in use outside its original sphere, and subsequently refurbished during its working life (often considerably long), then the use of a Solingen blade as replacement seems understandable.

This seems further support for these types of blades being produced by various smiths in Solingen in the 18th century, probably earlier as well, to provide blades to fulfill these kinds of requirements.....obviously in Scotland and other centers including Italian oriented domiciles.

As I have found in reviewing many old notes, these moons, like other often used devices, were not necessarily confined to a particular maker, especially the most prominent families of them. These were probably adopted by producers outside those within Solingen perimeters and provided as a kind of 'after market' type commodity, with such marks alluding to the quality of more renowned blades without the obvious copy of established makers marks.

Jim McDougall · 16th April 2015, 03:38 PM

I wanted to note that the excellent example of court sword posted by Norman in #14 on its blade has the blade motif, using these kinds of magic/occult motif in what is often termed the 'Caissignard' style, which originated or was typical in Nantes, France.

16th April 2015, 11:56 AM	#2
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 412	Attached Images

16th April 2015, 03:29 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Ulfberth, thank you so much for your ongoing support in this discussion and for adding such valuable examples. These are excellent in our look into the similarities/differences in the use of crescent moons in Solingen, followed in other cultural spheres. It would seem that in North Africa, the talismanic and magical imbuements of these faced crescent moons was well integrated into the symbolisms of tribal folk religions. That coupled with the special attention given by traders to these marks as indicators of high quality blades seem rather a 'shoe in' for incorporating them into subsequent native versions of the blades. In this outstanding schiavona example, the blade is indeed central triple fuller and the moons in the familiar positions below the outside fullers. It has long been clear that blades for schiavona were often supplied to North Italian makers in instances from Solingen. While the competition between major centers in Italy, Germany and Styria was well established, in my opinion, it seems unlikely that Solingen blades would have been required in Italy as early as the date of this hilt. Naturally if the sword was in use outside its original sphere, and subsequently refurbished during its working life (often considerably long), then the use of a Solingen blade as replacement seems understandable. This seems further support for these types of blades being produced by various smiths in Solingen in the 18th century, probably earlier as well, to provide blades to fulfill these kinds of requirements.....obviously in Scotland and other centers including Italian oriented domiciles. As I have found in reviewing many old notes, these moons, like other often used devices, were not necessarily confined to a particular maker, especially the most prominent families of them. These were probably adopted by producers outside those within Solingen perimeters and provided as a kind of 'after market' type commodity, with such marks alluding to the quality of more renowned blades without the obvious copy of established makers marks.

16th April 2015, 03:38 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	I wanted to note that the excellent example of court sword posted by Norman in #14 on its blade has the blade motif, using these kinds of magic/occult motif in what is often termed the 'Caissignard' style, which originated or was typical in Nantes, France.