A small Kris

blue lander · 7th April 2015, 03:41 PM

Just won the auction for this. The whole thing's about 60 cm long. The blade's pretty rusty so I can't see any evidence of pattern welding. I don't see a separate ganja either. The fittings look silver

Is this an "archaic" kris, which I understand were very small, or a post WW-2 child's kris?

Rick · 7th April 2015, 03:44 PM

I'd call it diminutive; it shows age but not any features that could be called archaic IMO .
Maybe it's a kid's sword .
It looks like it does have a separate gangya .

blue lander · 7th April 2015, 03:53 PM

Here's one more picture next to a tape measure for a sense of proportion.

Ian · 7th April 2015, 05:04 PM

I agree with Rick. This looks like a late 19th/early 20th C Maranao kris. There is an obvious visible line that suggests a separate gangya.

The apparent shortness of a kris like this is not uncommon (yours is not really that much shorter than many kris), even on relatively modern kris. We tend to look at the more massive examples from the late 19th C and consider them the norm, but smaller versions have been made through the 19th and into the 20th C.

Whether shorter versions are intended for children, or perhaps women (Moro women did fight beside the men in defense of their homes), is hard to say.

Ian.

Rick · 7th April 2015, 05:09 PM

I think it's a full sized kris .

Most of my full size Moro krises measure around 21-22 inches blade length .

blue lander · 7th April 2015, 05:17 PM

Cool, thanks. What do you suppose the hilt is wrapped with? It looks almost like a bandage.

Is it worth cleaning/etching? That is, is there a chance it isn't mono steel?

Sajen · 7th April 2015, 06:07 PM

Hello Blue,
agree with Rick and Ian. And I see also the evidence of a seperate gangya. The chance that the blade is laminated is great but you need to remove all rust and the blade need a good polish. The wrapping at the handle isn't original.
I think this kris is a nice learning exercise for restauration. Keep us updated!

Regards,
Detlef

Rick · 7th April 2015, 08:14 PM

That is a very nice banati(?) wood pommel; looks complete with no chips .
Cato attributes this larger style (IIRC), to the mid-late 19th, and calls it 'Danganan' form; but his description seems a bit vague to me .

Maybe the larger pommel makes a normal sized blade look a bit small .

blue lander · 7th April 2015, 08:24 PM

I'll give it a nice light scrubbing and polish... The pitting looks too deep to do anything about. Is the hot vinegar treatment the best way to get an etch out of this?

Rick · 7th April 2015, 08:39 PM

I believe the furniture is silver; this was probably once a very nice sword .
Then again any of these old soldiers that have survived have intrinsic worth .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_Re...2.80.931913.29

blue lander · 7th April 2015, 08:56 PM

I got that impression too, this used to be a smart little weapon. It seems like a lot of fine detail has been worn off this thing over the ages.

And maybe its just me but the bandage wrapped hilt has the color of dried blood

Sajen · 7th April 2015, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander

I'll give it a nice light scrubbing and polish... The pitting looks too deep to do anything about. Is the hot vinegar treatment the best way to get an etch out of this?

Don't be to fast. I still see hard crusted corrosion on the blade. The deep pitting you of course don't will get polished away. Maybe try to bath the blade inside lemon acid or vinegar essence to remove all corrosion. After this is done polish the blade with fine sandpaper. When this is done you can etch the blade. For the etching do a little bit search in old threads, there are different etching solutions which can be used. Like Rick I think this kris is worth to be preserved.

Regards,
Detlef

Spunjer · 8th April 2015, 11:52 AM

nothing more i can add from what the others said other than congrats in acquiring this complete set. at first glance, it looks like scabbard is original to the blade, and most likely, as you have mentioned, the fittings on the handle are silver. can't wait to see how this piece looks like all cleaned up!

blue lander · 20th April 2015, 06:10 PM

It arrived yesterday, I haven't had a chance to take a picture yet. I cleaned it off and gave it a once over with vinegar - the core of the blade turns a much lighter color than the cheeks. I don't see any lamination patterns yet.

The dark/light steel comes up much better on one side over the other
unfortunately the good side is nearly entirely covered in corrosion.

blue lander · 24th April 2015, 01:23 AM

Got a little better results with diluted fecl...

Only so much I can do with all that corrosion thoguh

7th April 2015, 03:41 PM	#1
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	A small Kris Just won the auction for this. The whole thing's about 60 cm long. The blade's pretty rusty so I can't see any evidence of pattern welding. I don't see a separate ganja either. The fittings look silver Is this an "archaic" kris, which I understand were very small, or a post WW-2 child's kris? Attached Images

7th April 2015, 03:53 PM	#3
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Here's one more picture next to a tape measure for a sense of proportion. Attached Images

7th April 2015, 08:14 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	That is a very nice banati(?) wood pommel; looks complete with no chips . Cato attributes this larger style (IIRC), to the mid-late 19th, and calls it 'Danganan' form; but his description seems a bit vague to me . Maybe the larger pommel makes a normal sized blade look a bit small . Last edited by Rick; 7th April 2015 at 08:28 PM.

7th April 2015, 08:39 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I believe the furniture is silver; this was probably once a very nice sword . Then again any of these old soldiers that have survived have intrinsic worth . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_Re...2.80.931913.29 Last edited by Rick; 7th April 2015 at 08:56 PM.

24th April 2015, 01:23 AM	#15
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Got a little better results with diluted fecl... Only so much I can do with all that corrosion thoguh Attached Images

7th April 2015, 03:44 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I'd call it diminutive; it shows age but not any features that could be called archaic IMO . Maybe it's a kid's sword . It looks like it does have a separate gangya .

7th April 2015, 05:04 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	I agree with Rick. This looks like a late 19th/early 20th C Maranao kris. There is an obvious visible line that suggests a separate gangya. The apparent shortness of a kris like this is not uncommon (yours is not really that much shorter than many kris), even on relatively modern kris. We tend to look at the more massive examples from the late 19th C and consider them the norm, but smaller versions have been made through the 19th and into the 20th C. Whether shorter versions are intended for children, or perhaps women (Moro women did fight beside the men in defense of their homes), is hard to say. Ian.

7th April 2015, 05:09 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I think it's a full sized kris . Most of my full size Moro krises measure around 21-22 inches blade length .

7th April 2015, 05:17 PM	#6
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Cool, thanks. What do you suppose the hilt is wrapped with? It looks almost like a bandage. Is it worth cleaning/etching? That is, is there a chance it isn't mono steel?

7th April 2015, 06:07 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Hello Blue, agree with Rick and Ian. And I see also the evidence of a seperate gangya. The chance that the blade is laminated is great but you need to remove all rust and the blade need a good polish. The wrapping at the handle isn't original. I think this kris is a nice learning exercise for restauration. Keep us updated! Regards, Detlef

7th April 2015, 08:24 PM	#9
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I'll give it a nice light scrubbing and polish... The pitting looks too deep to do anything about. Is the hot vinegar treatment the best way to get an etch out of this?

7th April 2015, 08:56 PM	#11
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I got that impression too, this used to be a smart little weapon. It seems like a lot of fine detail has been worn off this thing over the ages. And maybe its just me but the bandage wrapped hilt has the color of dried blood

8th April 2015, 11:52 AM	#13
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	nothing more i can add from what the others said other than congrats in acquiring this complete set. at first glance, it looks like scabbard is original to the blade, and most likely, as you have mentioned, the fittings on the handle are silver. can't wait to see how this piece looks like all cleaned up!

20th April 2015, 06:10 PM	#14
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	It arrived yesterday, I haven't had a chance to take a picture yet. I cleaned it off and gave it a once over with vinegar - the core of the blade turns a much lighter color than the cheeks. I don't see any lamination patterns yet. The dark/light steel comes up much better on one side over the other unfortunately the good side is nearly entirely covered in corrosion.