18th century Filipino sword

Rick · 2nd April 2015, 02:18 AM

That is a very human nose on the figure at the ferrule end; not dragon-like at all .
More like a gargoyle .
There is no apparent Christian iconography that I can recognize .
Is that a nut peened over a threaded tang ?

Battara · 3rd April 2015, 04:13 AM

I have held this in person. Yes Rick the tang is peened over.

However, I disagree. The head gear and dress of the person seem to me to be that worn by clergy of the 18th century in the Philippines. Of course more research needs to be done. Also the eyes and facial features are not Chinese but more European in nature.

RSWORD · 3rd April 2015, 11:35 AM

Thanks everyone for the comments so far. I'm wondering if there would be any potential in researching the early carved crucifix from the 16-18th century that are often defined as Hispano-Filipino. I don't recall specific images of clergy but certainly the quality of the carving is quite high in those items and I wonder if looking in that area would provide any information regarding the symbolism of the clergy figure and naga/dragon/gargoyle on my example.

Sajen · 3rd April 2015, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

The head gear and dress of the person seem to me to be that worn by clergy of the 18th century in the Philippines.

This was my impression from the first time I've seen this nice bolo. But I have done some research in this direction but don't have found pictures. Could it be that the carving shall show a nun? Are there are any documented early nuns who have played a rule by the christianization from Luzon? Just a thought.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 3rd April 2015, 01:29 PM

What is for example with Jerónima de la Fuente, died 1630 in Manila, a spanish nun, founder of the monastery Santa Clara in Intramuros, Manila and the first abbess. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeronima_de_la_Fuente Again, just a thought.

VANDOO · 3rd April 2015, 04:54 PM

THE REASONS I SEE CHINESE INFLUENCE IN THE CARVING STYLE. !. WHEN A CARVER CARVES PRIMARILY IN ONE STYLE FOR A FEW GENERATIONS OR TURNS OUT HUNDREDS OF CARVINGS OF ONE SUBJECT HE DEVELOPS A CERTAIN STYLE. IF HE HAS CARVED A FEW HUNDRED BUDDHAS WITH THE EYES CLOSED AS ON THIS EXAMPLE OFTEN THE FACES WILL ALL BE SIMILAR REGARDLESS OF WHO IT REPRESENTS. THOSE WHO LEARN FROM SUCH A CARVER ARE INFLUENCED TO WORK IN THE SAME WAY SO ITEMS CAN REMAIN SIMILAR BECAUSE OF THAT INFLUENCE OVER MANY GENERATIONS. BUDDAH IS OFTEN CARVED WITH EYES CLOSED PHILIPPIANS, SPANISH AND AMERICAN OFTEN ARE NOT. EYES CLOSED SIGNIFIES A SERENE AND GOOD PERSON OR GOD, OPEN BUGGED EYES USUALLY SHOWS EMOTION AND PERHAPS A FIERCE DISPOSITION IN ORIENTAL ART. I AM NOT SAYING THIS REPRESENTS BUDDAH JUST THAT THE FACE HAS MANY SIMULARITYS TO THE TYPE OF FACES OFTEN CARVED FOR BUDDAH. EVEN A NON CHINESE TRAINED TO CARVE BY A CHINESE OR ONE WHO CARVED IN THAT STYLE WOULD EMPLOY THE SAME TECKNIUES AND BASIC DESIGNS. A SMALL CHANGE IN THE EYES, DRESS, NOSE , BEARD ,ECT. WOULD CHANGE THE BASIC DESIGN TO PORTRAY THE SUBJECT COMISSIONED. A PICTURE OF 2 BUDDAHS THE LARGE ONE IS AT KAMAKURA JAPAN.

David R · 6th April 2015, 12:35 PM

Whatever the influences, that is a stunning piece!

3rd April 2015, 01:29 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,269	What is for example with Jerónima de la Fuente, died 1630 in Manila, a spanish nun, founder of the monastery Santa Clara in Intramuros, Manila and the first abbess. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeronima_de_la_Fuente Again, just a thought. Attached Images Last edited by Sajen; 3rd April 2015 at 01:36 PM. Reason: add link

3rd April 2015, 04:54 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE REASONS I SEE CHINESE INFLUENCE IN THE CARVING STYLE. !. WHEN A CARVER CARVES PRIMARILY IN ONE STYLE FOR A FEW GENERATIONS OR TURNS OUT HUNDREDS OF CARVINGS OF ONE SUBJECT HE DEVELOPS A CERTAIN STYLE. IF HE HAS CARVED A FEW HUNDRED BUDDHAS WITH THE EYES CLOSED AS ON THIS EXAMPLE OFTEN THE FACES WILL ALL BE SIMILAR REGARDLESS OF WHO IT REPRESENTS. THOSE WHO LEARN FROM SUCH A CARVER ARE INFLUENCED TO WORK IN THE SAME WAY SO ITEMS CAN REMAIN SIMILAR BECAUSE OF THAT INFLUENCE OVER MANY GENERATIONS. BUDDAH IS OFTEN CARVED WITH EYES CLOSED PHILIPPIANS, SPANISH AND AMERICAN OFTEN ARE NOT. EYES CLOSED SIGNIFIES A SERENE AND GOOD PERSON OR GOD, OPEN BUGGED EYES USUALLY SHOWS EMOTION AND PERHAPS A FIERCE DISPOSITION IN ORIENTAL ART. I AM NOT SAYING THIS REPRESENTS BUDDAH JUST THAT THE FACE HAS MANY SIMULARITYS TO THE TYPE OF FACES OFTEN CARVED FOR BUDDAH. EVEN A NON CHINESE TRAINED TO CARVE BY A CHINESE OR ONE WHO CARVED IN THAT STYLE WOULD EMPLOY THE SAME TECKNIUES AND BASIC DESIGNS. A SMALL CHANGE IN THE EYES, DRESS, NOSE , BEARD ,ECT. WOULD CHANGE THE BASIC DESIGN TO PORTRAY THE SUBJECT COMISSIONED. A PICTURE OF 2 BUDDAHS THE LARGE ONE IS AT KAMAKURA JAPAN. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 3rd April 2015 at 05:20 PM.

2nd April 2015, 02:18 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	That is a very human nose on the figure at the ferrule end; not dragon-like at all . More like a gargoyle . There is no apparent Christian iconography that I can recognize . Is that a nut peened over a threaded tang ?

3rd April 2015, 04:13 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	I have held this in person. Yes Rick the tang is peened over. However, I disagree. The head gear and dress of the person seem to me to be that worn by clergy of the 18th century in the Philippines. Of course more research needs to be done. Also the eyes and facial features are not Chinese but more European in nature.

3rd April 2015, 11:35 AM	#3
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	Thanks everyone for the comments so far. I'm wondering if there would be any potential in researching the early carved crucifix from the 16-18th century that are often defined as Hispano-Filipino. I don't recall specific images of clergy but certainly the quality of the carving is quite high in those items and I wonder if looking in that area would provide any information regarding the symbolism of the clergy figure and naga/dragon/gargoyle on my example.

6th April 2015, 12:35 PM	#7
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,123	Whatever the influences, that is a stunning piece!