Melanesian sword club

colin henshaw · 12th January 2015, 05:09 PM

Thanks Tim. The nearest examples I can find to your club, are as shown in these two illustrations from "The History of Mankind" by Ratzel 1897. Seemingly, the Umauas Indians lived in the Japura River region, which is to be found in the northwest of Brazil near to Colombia and Venezuela. Not a lot of help really, but if I find anything more, I will post it.

VANDOO · 12th January 2015, 07:47 PM

MY FEELING IS THE CLUB IS MORE LIKELY FROM THE AREA OF NEW GUINEA OR THE ISLANDS IN THAT GENERAL REGION. WHERE DID THE SELLER SHIP IT FROM AND WHAT WAS HIS DESCRIPTION? IF IT CAME FROM AUSTRALIA THAT WILL LIKELY BE CONFIRMATION THAT IT WAS FROM THAT REGION.
CLUBS AND OTHER WEAPONS OFTEN HAVE SIMILAR COUNTERPARTS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD. SO IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO IDENTIFY THINGS ONLY FROM WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE AND WHAT THEY ARE MADE OF. UNFORTUNATELY GOOD PROVENANCE IS RARE OR QUESTIONABLE SO WE ARE LEFT WITH GUESSES BASED ON LOGIC AND COMPARISONS OR CONJECTURE. A NICE CLUB REGARDLESS.

Tim Simmons · 13th January 2015, 07:26 AM

It was shipped from the USA and described as Nilotic.

kronckew · 13th January 2015, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

It was shipped from the USA and described as Nilotic.

my best silver handled burmese dha was sold as an egyptian machete.
mini photo attached to show how wrong that was...

many secrets are hidden by the shifting sands of time and the annual floods...

p.s. - my initial impression of your club was more pacific oriented. the two 'guard' bands at the grip remind me of the cook island sword clubs, with yours being a narrower version.

VANDOO · 13th January 2015, 05:21 PM

A GOOD OBSERVATION THESE KNOBS REPRESENT EYES ON MARQUESAS AND COOK ISLAND CLUBS. THE EYES ARE OBVIOUS ON THE LARGE FANCY CLUBS BUT PERHAPS JUST REPRESENTED AS KNOBS ON SMALLER MORE COMMON OR PLAIN EXAMPLES. NO DOUBT THERE WERE MANY VARIATIONS ON THE VARIOUS ISLANDS AND THE QUALITY RANGED FROM THE CHIEF OR PRIESTS FANCY CLUBS TO THOSE USED BY THE YOUNG WARRIORS TRYING TO PROVE THEMSELVES.
COLLECTORS PAST AND PRESENT USUALLY GO FOR THE FANCY EXAMPLES SO THE MORE COMMON FORMS ARE OFTEN NOT SEEN OR DOCUMENTED IN MUSEUMS OR BOOKS.
NIOLITHIC SOUNDS MORE CULTURED THAN STONE AGE

TODAY THE TERM IS USED A LOT TO DESCRIBE ITEMS FROM NEW GUINEA AND AUSTRALIA BUT COULD APPLY TO ANYWHERE DEPENDING ON THE AGE OF THE ITEM. IN TODAY'S WORLD SOME PEOPLE ARE STILL IN THE STONE AGE IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

Tim Simmons · 15th January 2015, 05:08 PM

Enter club or sword weapon in the search box here and I think this slim sword club has more in common with South American {Paraguay Amazon} examples than Oceanic.

http://anthro.amnh.org/south

12th January 2015, 05:09 PM	#1
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,429	Thanks Tim. The nearest examples I can find to your club, are as shown in these two illustrations from "The History of Mankind" by Ratzel 1897. Seemingly, the Umauas Indians lived in the Japura River region, which is to be found in the northwest of Brazil near to Colombia and Venezuela. Not a lot of help really, but if I find anything more, I will post it. Attached Images

12th January 2015, 07:47 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	MY FEELING IS THE CLUB IS MORE LIKELY FROM THE AREA OF NEW GUINEA OR THE ISLANDS IN THAT GENERAL REGION. WHERE DID THE SELLER SHIP IT FROM AND WHAT WAS HIS DESCRIPTION? IF IT CAME FROM AUSTRALIA THAT WILL LIKELY BE CONFIRMATION THAT IT WAS FROM THAT REGION. CLUBS AND OTHER WEAPONS OFTEN HAVE SIMILAR COUNTERPARTS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD. SO IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO IDENTIFY THINGS ONLY FROM WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE AND WHAT THEY ARE MADE OF. UNFORTUNATELY GOOD PROVENANCE IS RARE OR QUESTIONABLE SO WE ARE LEFT WITH GUESSES BASED ON LOGIC AND COMPARISONS OR CONJECTURE. A NICE CLUB REGARDLESS.

13th January 2015, 07:26 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	It was shipped from the USA and described as Nilotic.

13th January 2015, 05:21 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A GOOD OBSERVATION THESE KNOBS REPRESENT EYES ON MARQUESAS AND COOK ISLAND CLUBS. THE EYES ARE OBVIOUS ON THE LARGE FANCY CLUBS BUT PERHAPS JUST REPRESENTED AS KNOBS ON SMALLER MORE COMMON OR PLAIN EXAMPLES. NO DOUBT THERE WERE MANY VARIATIONS ON THE VARIOUS ISLANDS AND THE QUALITY RANGED FROM THE CHIEF OR PRIESTS FANCY CLUBS TO THOSE USED BY THE YOUNG WARRIORS TRYING TO PROVE THEMSELVES. COLLECTORS PAST AND PRESENT USUALLY GO FOR THE FANCY EXAMPLES SO THE MORE COMMON FORMS ARE OFTEN NOT SEEN OR DOCUMENTED IN MUSEUMS OR BOOKS. NIOLITHIC SOUNDS MORE CULTURED THAN STONE AGE TODAY THE TERM IS USED A LOT TO DESCRIBE ITEMS FROM NEW GUINEA AND AUSTRALIA BUT COULD APPLY TO ANYWHERE DEPENDING ON THE AGE OF THE ITEM. IN TODAY'S WORLD SOME PEOPLE ARE STILL IN THE STONE AGE IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

15th January 2015, 05:08 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Enter club or sword weapon in the search box here and I think this slim sword club has more in common with South American {Paraguay Amazon} examples than Oceanic. http://anthro.amnh.org/south