Sumatran Mystery?

[Jean]

Hi David,
I never saw a similar piece but offer my opinion as follows:
To me the blade seems to have been reshaped especially on the back side (wadidang), I can apparently see some traces of filing of the greneng and above it. It may have been shortened also and I doubt that it has pamor. As Kai showed a similar but apparently more original blade with a Malay/ East Sumatra JD hilt and full greneng, it may be a little-known local type of blade from Malaysia or East Sumatra.
The odd scabbard is reminiscent of the Palembang style without the "rudder" at the back but with a V shaped buntnut which is not used in South Sumatra.
The ivory hilt is old and of an unknown design & origin but the horn insert and crude pendokok seem recent.
So overall I would describe it as an assembly kris but not a KLO and I am open to other opinions especially from our Malaysian members...
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hi David,
I never saw a similar piece but offer my opinion as follows:
To me the blade seems to have been reshaped especially on the back side (wadidang), I can apparently see some traces of filing of the greneng and above it. It may have been shortened also and I doubt that it has pamor. As Kai showed a similar but apparently more original blade with a Malay/ East Sumatra JD hilt and full greneng, it may be a little-known local type of blade from Malaysia or East Sumatra.
The odd scabbard is reminiscent of the Palembang style without the "rudder" at the back but with a V shaped buntnut which is not used in South Sumatra.
The ivory hilt is old and of an unknown design & origin but the horn insert and crude pendokok seem recent.
So overall I would describe it as an assembly kris but not a KLO and I am open to other opinions especially from our Malaysian members...
Regards

Thanks for your response Jean. I don't think this has been reshaped, just not very well shaped in the first place (see my suggestion in my response to Gio). I think the file marks remain because the keris wasn't very well finished in the first place. I agree with both you and Gio that there is most probably no pamor in this keris.
I can't tell when the horn may have been added to the ivory hilt, though as Kai suggested it may be a means to continue the life of an old valued ivory hilt that became deteriorated at the base. The pendokok seems the most out of place part so i might be looking for suggestions on what to replace it with. Since this one seems hard to place geographically exactly what the pendokok should look like is difficult to determine.
To your knowledge is the "V" shaped buntut used in any part of Sumatra? I believe Kai suggested perhaps a peninsula origin.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Thanks for your response Jean. I don't think this has been reshaped, just not very well shaped in the first place (see my suggestion in my response to Gio).
To your knowledge is the "V" shaped buntut used in any part of Sumatra? I believe Kai suggested perhaps a peninsula origin.

Hi David,
Your blade is only 9 inches long while the one shown by Kai is 13 inches long.
The horn buntut may not be original as it looks very shiny and not well proportioned IMO (too short). It may have been added at the same time as the one at the base of the hilt? Yes, some krisses Panjang attributed to Bangkinang include this V-shaped buntut (see Zonneveld page 64), however these krisses may actually originate from Malaysia...
You will also see some Sumatrese scabbards with V-shaped buntut in the Krisdisk from K.S Jensen in Chapter 9.3 (Krisses from Sumatra), but none in the Malaysia chapter.
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

Your blade is only 9 inches long while the one shown by Kai is 13 inches long.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Kai has suggested that this keris may have been intended to be a keris bahari. My understanding of those blades is that they are usually around 10 in. long. Kai's example is 13 in. which might be a little long for that form. Mine is a little short for that form (and why i first wondered if it was intended as a patrem. But if you are implying that my blade has been reshaped and shortened because Kai's example is 4 in. longer i would have to respectfully disagree. I see no evidence that this blade was ever any longer.

Originally Posted by Jean

The horn buntut may not be original as it looks very shiny and not well proportioned IMO (too short). It may have been added at the same time as the one at the base of the hilt? Yes, some krisses Panjang attributed to Bangkinang include this V-shaped buntut (see Zonneveld page 64), however these krisses may actually originate from Malaysia...
You will also see some Sumatrese scabbards with V-shaped buntut in the Krisdisk from K.S Jensen in Chapter 9.3 (Krisses from Sumatra), but none in the Malaysia chapter.

I suspect that the horn buntut was also original to this sheath. While it may be a bit too short in comparison to similar sheaths i believe that the wider stem necessary to accommodate this broader (for it's length) blade may have dictated that. Also, like this blade, not all sheaths are made in outland areas to the specifics of the court.

[Jussi M.]

For what it´s worth I actually really like the blade...

For some reason it strikes a chord in me. - Something very "Indian" about it.

Just a subjective opinion, that´s all.

J.

[David]

Originally Posted by Jussi M.

For what it´s worth I actually really like the blade...

For some reason it strikes a chord in me. - Something very "Indian" about it.

Just a subjective opinion, that´s all.

J.

Well Jussi, that's what i though too…

[wisnoewijaya79]

I've heard about "ANAK ALANG GULING" a rare keris from malay, is this the piece???