IDENTIFICATION REQUIRED,GUN FROM MIDDLE EAST MOSTLY BEDOUIN OR SAUDI ARABIA

[BANDOOK]

AM POSTING PICTURES OF MY BEDOUIN MUSKET WAS TOLD IT COULD BE FROM SAUDI ARABIA OR OMAN,HAS BARNETT ,LONDON ON THE LOCKS,PLEASE LET ME KNOW YOUR VIEWS WHERE IT COMES FROM
REGARDS RAJESH

[trenchwarfare]

It appears to be an all English made gun, with locally added embellishments. I'm just learning these, so can't help with the region of origin. Styles seem to overlap from culture, to culture, so pinpointing an ethnic group is difficult. I like it.

[TVV]

To me this looks like a Snider gun, which was modified in Yemen to fit local taste. Nice gun.

Teodor

[spiral]

Thats not English made, the markings are clearly fake.

All though the detail picture quality is poor the font & execution of the markings are clearly later & incorrect.

spiral

[trenchwarfare]

In the middle east, markings have nothing to do with mfg. Yes, the font of the maker name looks modern. That doesn't mean it's not an English made gun. I've seen several Royal Afghan mfg. rifles, that have been scrubbed, and English markings added. Done I guess, to appeal more to the GIs. I was going by the fact that the lock looks English, and the trigger guard is heavily made military, not the sheet metal guards you usually see on these type guns. And I could be wrong.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by trenchwarfare

In the middle east, markings have nothing to do with mfg. Yes, the font of the maker name looks modern. That doesn't mean it's not an English made gun. I've seen several Royal Afghan mfg. rifles, that have been scrubbed, and English markings added. Done I guess, to appeal more to the GIs. I was going by the fact that the lock looks English, and the trigger guard is heavily made military, not the sheet metal guards you usually see on these type guns. And I could be wrong.

Thank you for sharing your viewpoint... Although your reference, Afghanistan is not in the middle east....

I would agree the trigger guard looks legitimate, every other angle in stock & lock is off. The bolt holding the hammer is also clearly not English, never mind London made.

The fact modern fakes from Afghanistan, with a few original parts mixed in, {Of origin unknown.} you regard as legitimate is strange.

I State origin unknown as I presume you know many of the Royal Afghan Army rifles were made in Kabul etc. as well? Not just the UK?

[kahnjar1]

Origin of the gun COULD be English, but as has been mentioned above there have been many locks with fake markings. It is NOT a SNIDER gun as suggested by Teodor. These had side hinged breeches and were not muzzleloaders.
The decoration style (in parts) looks Yemeni, but in fact could have originated anywhere, and may not even be very old as "ageing" is/was very cleverly done to fool the unwary.
A nice piece just the same and I like it very much.
As a note of caution, please check that it is not still loaded......
Stu

[spiral]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

It is NOT a SNIDER gun as suggested by Teodor. These had side hinged breeches and were not muzzleloader

The design copies the 1853 Enfield....

The stock design angles are different from the English ones though.

spiral

[TVV]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Origin of the gun COULD be English, but as has been mentioned above there have been many locks with fake markings. It is NOT a SNIDER gun as suggested by Teodor. These had side hinged breeches and were not muzzleloaders.

Good point, I should have paid more attention. And I agree that it is very likely a local imitation of an English lock as well.

Teodor

[Shakethetrees]

I can't see enough of it from the images, but it looks like it could be an Enfield rifled musket that was trimmed and modified a bit, then decorated. I know Barnett was a contractor for Enfield muskets in the 19th century. They would have been familiar enough in India/Pakistan/Afghanistan so that decent, letter for letter copies of the lock AND gun could have been made there and later modified by locals.

I've seen a lot of Martini-Henry's that are certified copies made in South Asia as well. Some had impeccable marks that are hard to discern from those of the UK arsenals, others are roughly cut, misspelled and even written in gibberish that only resembles English.

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

I can't see enough of it from the images, but it looks like it could be an Enfield rifled musket that was trimmed and modified a bit, then decorated. I know Barnett was a contractor for Enfield muskets in the 19th century. They would have been familiar enough in India/Pakistan/Afghanistan so that decent, letter for letter copies of the lock AND gun could have been made there and later modified by locals.

I've seen a lot of Martini-Henry's that are certified copies made in South Asia as well. Some had impeccable marks that are hard to discern from those of the UK arsenals, others are roughly cut, misspelled and even written in gibberish that only resembles English.

thanks all for comments/inputs ,appreciated