Tale of two Krises

Battara · 29th November 2014, 04:52 AM

Nice and interesting pieces. I might agree with the possible Lumad associations for the etched one.

What might add to the Lumad mix is the color of the hilt metal - looks either brass or nickel-silver. More a Lumad material.

Ian · 29th November 2014, 05:07 PM

Thanks for showing these two kris. The differences between Sulu and Maguindanao can be tricky sometimes and I think you are right about the heavier blade probably being Maguindanao in origin (even though the "eagle beak" on the blade might suggest Sulu, at least according to Cato).

I wonder whether the brass on the pommel of the Maguindanao kris might actually be covering a more traditional wooden horse-hoof pommel with its octagonal facets. There is a hint of some other straight sides on the brass pommel rim that might reflect an underlying octagonal shape.

The method of attaching the metal cladding of the pommel is identical in each case: the metal from the handle piece is folded over the plate that caps the end of the hilt. This is an unusual configuration in my experience but Jose has more expertise and might be able to comment on this technique and how commonly he has seen it. In any case, the hilts are very similar in construction (apart from the metals) and seem to have come from the same craftsman.

The heavier blade, with its extensive etching, is certainly odd and I agree it suggests a non-Moro origin. You mention a "lost wax" method but I'm not familiar with that technique for etching--I've seen it used for cast metal pieces, such as the T'boli and Bagobo hits.

Very interesting pair and nicely restored.

Ian.

Spunjer · 29th November 2014, 05:13 PM

as i've mentioned on my original post, jose, the handle (pommel and rings) is brass, hence my assumption about this particular piece as being Maguindanao in origin, being their close proximity with the T'boli. it wouldn't surprise me if the panday was T'boli himself

another thing i forgot to mention are the geometric pattern on the blade. very similar to the design found on T'boli kefilans and toks...

Spunjer · 29th November 2014, 05:33 PM

thanks for your input, Ian.
as far as the pommel on the brass kris: i can see why you think it's faceted, and i think you're right. you could barely see it on the first picture. looking at the kris again, i can feel the facets.

regarding the eagle beak: if you notice, it looks "cruder" than the Sulu blade. i have a feeling it was chiseled out as an after thought. The Sulu appears to be more of a part of the process in making the blade...

Battara · 29th November 2014, 09:03 PM

Oh I guess I missed that in your initial post......

Anyway the method used on the blade is not lost wax but wax etch (just for clarification)

Also the ron do (no direct relation to you, Ron

) seems to be in Maguindanao style, although I do agree with you on the blade etching does seem to resemble the T'boli pattern.

Sajen · 30th November 2014, 05:35 PM

Hello Ron,

thank you for sharing this both nice kris with us. Special the wax etched blade is very interesting, never seen something similar before.

Regards,
Detlef

Spunjer · 1st December 2014, 12:28 PM

thanks, Detlef. i love acquiring those unusual types. it kinda throw a monkey wrench on everything.
like you i've never seen the wax edged blade before as well, save for one time on one of the dealer's website. it looked wax etched anyway.

kino · 3rd December 2014, 03:35 AM

Ho brah, what a nice looking pair!
Goldilocks has a unique acid etched blade. Is the blade laminated/pattern welded? An interesting theory on the manufacture being Lumad, I have a Barung with a mono steel acid etched blade, similar pattern to yours but not as elaborate. Like your Goldilocks blade my Barung exhibits file marks. Odd similarities.
BTW...did it come with bibingka?

29th November 2014, 05:13 PM	#3
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	as i've mentioned on my original post, jose, the handle (pommel and rings) is brass, hence my assumption about this particular piece as being Maguindanao in origin, being their close proximity with the T'boli. it wouldn't surprise me if the panday was T'boli himself another thing i forgot to mention are the geometric pattern on the blade. very similar to the design found on T'boli kefilans and toks... Attached Images

29th November 2014, 05:33 PM	#4
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	thanks for your input, Ian. as far as the pommel on the brass kris: i can see why you think it's faceted, and i think you're right. you could barely see it on the first picture. looking at the kris again, i can feel the facets. regarding the eagle beak: if you notice, it looks "cruder" than the Sulu blade. i have a feeling it was chiseled out as an after thought. The Sulu appears to be more of a part of the process in making the blade... Last edited by Spunjer; 29th November 2014 at 05:45 PM.

29th November 2014, 04:52 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Nice and interesting pieces. I might agree with the possible Lumad associations for the etched one. What might add to the Lumad mix is the color of the hilt metal - looks either brass or nickel-silver. More a Lumad material.

29th November 2014, 05:07 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Thanks for showing these two kris. The differences between Sulu and Maguindanao can be tricky sometimes and I think you are right about the heavier blade probably being Maguindanao in origin (even though the "eagle beak" on the blade might suggest Sulu, at least according to Cato). I wonder whether the brass on the pommel of the Maguindanao kris might actually be covering a more traditional wooden horse-hoof pommel with its octagonal facets. There is a hint of some other straight sides on the brass pommel rim that might reflect an underlying octagonal shape. The method of attaching the metal cladding of the pommel is identical in each case: the metal from the handle piece is folded over the plate that caps the end of the hilt. This is an unusual configuration in my experience but Jose has more expertise and might be able to comment on this technique and how commonly he has seen it. In any case, the hilts are very similar in construction (apart from the metals) and seem to have come from the same craftsman. The heavier blade, with its extensive etching, is certainly odd and I agree it suggests a non-Moro origin. You mention a "lost wax" method but I'm not familiar with that technique for etching--I've seen it used for cast metal pieces, such as the T'boli and Bagobo hits. Very interesting pair and nicely restored. Ian.

29th November 2014, 09:03 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Oh I guess I missed that in your initial post...... Anyway the method used on the blade is not lost wax but wax etch (just for clarification) Also the ron do (no direct relation to you, Ron ) seems to be in Maguindanao style, although I do agree with you on the blade etching does seem to resemble the T'boli pattern.

30th November 2014, 05:35 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	Hello Ron, thank you for sharing this both nice kris with us. Special the wax etched blade is very interesting, never seen something similar before. Regards, Detlef

1st December 2014, 12:28 PM	#7
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	thanks, Detlef. i love acquiring those unusual types. it kinda throw a monkey wrench on everything. like you i've never seen the wax edged blade before as well, save for one time on one of the dealer's website. it looked wax etched anyway.

3rd December 2014, 03:35 AM	#8
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,018	Ho brah, what a nice looking pair! Goldilocks has a unique acid etched blade. Is the blade laminated/pattern welded? An interesting theory on the manufacture being Lumad, I have a Barung with a mono steel acid etched blade, similar pattern to yours but not as elaborate. Like your Goldilocks blade my Barung exhibits file marks. Odd similarities. BTW...did it come with bibingka?