Axe for ID

fernando · 13th November 2014, 04:45 PM

Having tried several alternatives to go dipper into this Portuguese boarding axe business, i am starting to realize that hardly some precise identification may be reached and, much worse, pictures are not available.
After having addressed the Navy Museum Friends Association i was advised to contact directly the Navy Museum. Having so done, i was told that the only example in the exhibition rooms was a current axe with no back pick, of later period, and a had a promise that they will investigate this subject when time available; the person at the phone, a young sub-lieutenant, had never specifically heard or seen one of these things.
Then i decided to email a national illustrious historian and collector (and dealer) of antique arms and armor, having himself owned large quantities of axes over time, of all sorts and origins, as also having been lecturer in the Navy school and directing member of the Navy Museum Friends Association, thus a frequent visitor of the vast Museum depots.
So in a qualified point of view, the following assumptions may be made:
Any possible study on these axes is unknown.
They have never been regulated, like were Infantry or Cavalry weapons.
It was up to each Naval unit Commander to choose, order and acquire the axes in the required quantity for their crew. In a way that we can find different axe models in the various naval units of the same period.
When observing examples with labels indicating the name of the Naval unit to which they belonged, further learning has been acquired. For instance, naval axes used during the Liberal Wars (1820’s - 1830’s) had various origins. We eventually used American, French, Spanish, British, Portuguese and even Italian material.
The differences were minuscule and nobody cared to differentiate them. Generally considered mere crude tools without any decoration, they were not contemplated with mindful records.

CutlassCollector · 13th November 2014, 05:12 PM

Thanks Fernando, that's interesting information.
It would seem that some countries adopted regulation patterns while others did not. It certainly explains why we never see recognizable Portuguese boarding axes or Spanish ones pre 1840.

CC

M ELEY · 14th November 2014, 01:56 AM

Sorry to hear of your wild goose chase, Fernando, but the lack of information actually speaks volumes. As CC pointed out, recognizable patterns in some navies are non-existant, but I think by using deduction, it is at least possible to determine which ones aren't boarding axes. The fact that the real ones were plain and no two specimens were alike still doesn't detract any interest for me! I love these simple, but brutal, tool/weapons of the sea service. If you ever grow weary of it, well, you know the drill....

fernando · 15th November 2014, 05:07 PM

I appreciate your gentlemen’s interest in my ‘not so encouraging’ info.
However Mark, this doesn’t reduce my initial interest in such specimen

.
But in case my fellow collector decides to get rid of his twin brother, which i honestly doubt, you will be the first to stand a chance

.

fernando · 10th August 2016, 06:34 PM

This is the other example that my friend collector found that day at the antique shop. I can see no significant differences in the axe properly, except that in this one, what appears to be a maker mark, is more clear and evident.
However the handle has a slightly different profile, with a rather different end. It could be that its knob was (perfectly) flattened after production, possibly to fit better with its keeping or hanging place, as also the hole for a lanyard in the previous one might have been done at a later stage. And while the handle of the said previous example had some superficial turned grooves, this one doesn't have such intervention, but i think i discern in the wood vains a dark tone, which could have been from a previous black painting ( a navy habit ?), later scraped.

.

fernando · 10th August 2016, 06:47 PM

Comparing the previous with the present example. Amazing that the dimensions and the weight of both are the same. Having the equal measures, we may accept as normal, but the weight of both being 918 grs. gram to gram ... coincidences do exist indeed.

.

CutlassCollector · 10th August 2016, 07:07 PM

That's really interesting to see them together, Fernando.

Only very slight differences to the metalwork and the fact that weight and sizes are so close suggest that they were made by different smiths but to the same pattern. Changes to the wood work possibly made, as you suggest, in service to fit use or storage.

Thanks for posting.
Regards CC

10th August 2016, 06:34 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	This is the other example that my friend collector found that day at the antique shop. I can see no significant differences in the axe properly, except that in this one, what appears to be a maker mark, is more clear and evident. However the handle has a slightly different profile, with a rather different end. It could be that its knob was (perfectly) flattened after production, possibly to fit better with its keeping or hanging place, as also the hole for a lanyard in the previous one might have been done at a later stage. And while the handle of the said previous example had some superficial turned grooves, this one doesn't have such intervention, but i think i discern in the wood vains a dark tone, which could have been from a previous black painting ( a navy habit ?), later scraped. . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 10th August 2016 at 06:48 PM.

10th August 2016, 06:47 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Comparing the previous with the present example. Amazing that the dimensions and the weight of both are the same. Having the equal measures, we may accept as normal, but the weight of both being 918 grs. gram to gram ... coincidences do exist indeed. . Attached Images

13th November 2014, 04:45 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Having tried several alternatives to go dipper into this Portuguese boarding axe business, i am starting to realize that hardly some precise identification may be reached and, much worse, pictures are not available. After having addressed the Navy Museum Friends Association i was advised to contact directly the Navy Museum. Having so done, i was told that the only example in the exhibition rooms was a current axe with no back pick, of later period, and a had a promise that they will investigate this subject when time available; the person at the phone, a young sub-lieutenant, had never specifically heard or seen one of these things. Then i decided to email a national illustrious historian and collector (and dealer) of antique arms and armor, having himself owned large quantities of axes over time, of all sorts and origins, as also having been lecturer in the Navy school and directing member of the Navy Museum Friends Association, thus a frequent visitor of the vast Museum depots. So in a qualified point of view, the following assumptions may be made: Any possible study on these axes is unknown. They have never been regulated, like were Infantry or Cavalry weapons. It was up to each Naval unit Commander to choose, order and acquire the axes in the required quantity for their crew. In a way that we can find different axe models in the various naval units of the same period. When observing examples with labels indicating the name of the Naval unit to which they belonged, further learning has been acquired. For instance, naval axes used during the Liberal Wars (1820’s - 1830’s) had various origins. We eventually used American, French, Spanish, British, Portuguese and even Italian material. The differences were minuscule and nobody cared to differentiate them. Generally considered mere crude tools without any decoration, they were not contemplated with mindful records.

13th November 2014, 05:12 PM	#2
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 343	Thanks Fernando, that's interesting information. It would seem that some countries adopted regulation patterns while others did not. It certainly explains why we never see recognizable Portuguese boarding axes or Spanish ones pre 1840. CC

14th November 2014, 01:56 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Sorry to hear of your wild goose chase, Fernando, but the lack of information actually speaks volumes. As CC pointed out, recognizable patterns in some navies are non-existant, but I think by using deduction, it is at least possible to determine which ones aren't boarding axes. The fact that the real ones were plain and no two specimens were alike still doesn't detract any interest for me! I love these simple, but brutal, tool/weapons of the sea service. If you ever grow weary of it, well, you know the drill....

15th November 2014, 05:07 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I appreciate your gentlemen’s interest in my ‘not so encouraging’ info. However Mark, this doesn’t reduce my initial interest in such specimen . But in case my fellow collector decides to get rid of his twin brother, which i honestly doubt, you will be the first to stand a chance .

10th August 2016, 07:07 PM	#7
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 343	That's really interesting to see them together, Fernando. Only very slight differences to the metalwork and the fact that weight and sizes are so close suggest that they were made by different smiths but to the same pattern. Changes to the wood work possibly made, as you suggest, in service to fit use or storage. Thanks for posting. Regards CC