Accidental collector - old weapons ID assistance (Yao?)

Emanuel · 5th November 2014, 08:48 PM

And a last one...

Emanuel · 5th November 2014, 09:06 PM

Now here is a cruder form previously discussed on this forum and considered to be Afghan.

Emanuel · 5th November 2014, 09:19 PM

Some thoughts...

Note that the blade is very similar to some short Burmese dha knives in both profile and execution:
- single-edged
- slight droop towards the edge
- well executed fullers on the good example, but flat blade on cruder examples

Note the bolster construction which appears to borrow both from Nepalese khukri bolsters, and from Tibetan knives, with a rivet through the bolster well brushed and hidden.

The tang construction is unique in that the tang maintains the same section as the blade and is not hidden inside the handle, which has a slot to received it. So far, only the crude Afghan knife above features this tang construction. Otherwise the Tibetan knives feature slab/scale handles, while most khukri and Burmese handles have a hole inside to receive a narrower rat-tail tang. Khukri with slab/scale handles appear in WWII with the British pattern MK2.

The circular decorative motif on the handle and sometimes scabbard straps is not a helpful feature in establishing the origin of these knives as it has already been shown many many times on this forum that it is extremely widespread to different cultures around the world.

The stamped markings at the base of the blade are like nothing else. They closely resemble flags or maritime symbols to me. The marks are repeated 2-3 times and look like they were struck by the same punch. This suggests a standardized manufacture to me, not simple village production.

Emanuel

spiral · 5th November 2014, 09:23 PM

I obviously always thought these NWF, Assam, Burma maybe surrounding regions...

That being Due to there details of manufacture... the only discrepancy being the exposed partial tang, that is historically usually European..

But personally ill accept Malawi etc. for these... as 3 out of 4 are provenanced to separate donors, all of whom only donated items from that region...

Unless or Until someone proves there from the Yao in Burma or some Indian manufacture etc.

Indian manufacture in Africa could make more sense to me?

But until that time I have to go with available apparently provenaced pieces originally from 3 separate collections, unless some one can dig up another pre.ww2 reference or reliable provenance to prove the BM have got 3 accessions incorrectly listed to donors or they are made by Indian smiths in Africa, etc.etc.

When I look at other African Yao stuff I see no similarity... Strangely the Lao Dao from Burma looks closer.

Who can find more evidence... there must be other old collections with these?

Fernando... Are there any Portuguese museum collections of relevance you can access?

spiral

5th November 2014, 08:48 PM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	And a last one... Attached Images

5th November 2014, 09:06 PM	#2
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Now here is a cruder form previously discussed on this forum and considered to be Afghan. Attached Images

5th November 2014, 09:19 PM	#3
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Some thoughts... Note that the blade is very similar to some short Burmese dha knives in both profile and execution: - single-edged - slight droop towards the edge - well executed fullers on the good example, but flat blade on cruder examples Note the bolster construction which appears to borrow both from Nepalese khukri bolsters, and from Tibetan knives, with a rivet through the bolster well brushed and hidden. The tang construction is unique in that the tang maintains the same section as the blade and is not hidden inside the handle, which has a slot to received it. So far, only the crude Afghan knife above features this tang construction. Otherwise the Tibetan knives feature slab/scale handles, while most khukri and Burmese handles have a hole inside to receive a narrower rat-tail tang. Khukri with slab/scale handles appear in WWII with the British pattern MK2. The circular decorative motif on the handle and sometimes scabbard straps is not a helpful feature in establishing the origin of these knives as it has already been shown many many times on this forum that it is extremely widespread to different cultures around the world. The stamped markings at the base of the blade are like nothing else. They closely resemble flags or maritime symbols to me. The marks are repeated 2-3 times and look like they were struck by the same punch. This suggests a standardized manufacture to me, not simple village production. Emanuel

5th November 2014, 09:23 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I obviously always thought these NWF, Assam, Burma maybe surrounding regions... That being Due to there details of manufacture... the only discrepancy being the exposed partial tang, that is historically usually European.. But personally ill accept Malawi etc. for these... as 3 out of 4 are provenanced to separate donors, all of whom only donated items from that region... Unless or Until someone proves there from the Yao in Burma or some Indian manufacture etc. Indian manufacture in Africa could make more sense to me? But until that time I have to go with available apparently provenaced pieces originally from 3 separate collections, unless some one can dig up another pre.ww2 reference or reliable provenance to prove the BM have got 3 accessions incorrectly listed to donors or they are made by Indian smiths in Africa, etc.etc. When I look at other African Yao stuff I see no similarity... Strangely the Lao Dao from Burma looks closer. Who can find more evidence... there must be other old collections with these? Fernando... Are there any Portuguese museum collections of relevance you can access? spiral