Accidental collector - old weapons ID assistance (Yao?)

spiral · 5th November 2014, 04:27 PM

Excellent!... to keep some continuity for the thread... Heres the BM link. {Below...}

So Yao or at least "in the style of" knives... Fascinating!

Who would have guessed Malawi! south Africa.

{The continent not the country...} Seems I was miles out with Burma etc....

Spiral

link..

Jens Nordlunde · 5th November 2014, 04:35 PM

My vague guess would have been India.
You should however consider, that India from ancient times had a lot of sea trading from the north of Africa to Madagascar, and maybe even further south. Trading for slaves and ivory - which is said to be stronger than the Indian ivory.
Jens

Sajen · 5th November 2014, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

So Yao or at least "in the style of" knives... Fascinating!

Who would have guessed Malawi! south Africa.

{The continent not the country...} Seems I was miles out with Burma etc....

I am with you Spiral!

Martin Lubojacky · 6th November 2014, 08:57 AM

When it is marked out by such important museum (and motivated by donor´s legends), it is difficult to object. But, in any case, there is something strange in it. Look at another yao knives, which are more conformable to i.g. Shona style. Rivets instead of tongue in that part of Africa ...(?), such collar .... As far as me - the overal shape is more similar to Japanese fishermen boat knives (I knowingly talk a bit; I would vote to Burma or something Central Asian), than to African styles which I met till now. But, the life is neverending study...

I mentioned following story here before, so I apologize: cca 20 years ago I have given my nice knife from Finland to my friend, who was travelling to Ongota tribe in southern Ethiopia. My friend was linguist and he studdied those tribes. Once he was present to the childbirth there and so - he became something like godfather. So I gave him the Finland knife when he was going to visit the willage and to call on the boy after years - since he did not have any suitable gift with him. I hope nobody will donate this Finland knife to any museum as tradditional Ongota knife. I know this differs from the Yao case and I do not want to flout authorities, but, there could be something similar in it ...

Andrew · 6th November 2014, 01:39 PM

In my personal opinion, these are not continental SEA. The general blade profile, fullering and ivory handles are strikingly similar to knives from the region, but the differences are more edifying--the partially exposed tang and bolsters are definitively not correct for that region.

Other than this observation of questionable value, I am clueless as to origin.

Sajen · 6th November 2014, 05:08 PM

I still have problems to believe that this knives are from Africa, museums are often wrong by descriptions.
Nepal could be a facility, look for example this ram-dao taken from this forum: http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru...TID=29611&PN=3
See special the mark on the blade.

Regards,
Detlef

Tim Simmons · 6th November 2014, 05:23 PM

I am with you Detlef. African knife makers make the most crude and some of the most wonderful quality knives but this is not one from Africa. How and why the museum has it wrong I do not know?

Gavin Nugent · 6th November 2014, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I am with you Detlef. African knife makers make the most crude and some of the most wonderful quality knives but this is not one from Africa. How and why the museum has it wrong I do not know?

You guys are forgetting the colonial powers at play here...

6th November 2014, 05:08 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	I still have problems to believe that this knives are from Africa, museums are often wrong by descriptions. Nepal could be a facility, look for example this ram-dao taken from this forum: http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru...TID=29611&PN=3 See special the mark on the blade. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

5th November 2014, 04:27 PM	#1
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Excellent!... to keep some continuity for the thread... Heres the BM link. {Below...} So Yao or at least "in the style of" knives... Fascinating! Who would have guessed Malawi! south Africa. {The continent not the country...} Seems I was miles out with Burma etc.... Spiral link..

5th November 2014, 04:35 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	My vague guess would have been India. You should however consider, that India from ancient times had a lot of sea trading from the north of Africa to Madagascar, and maybe even further south. Trading for slaves and ivory - which is said to be stronger than the Indian ivory. Jens

6th November 2014, 08:57 AM	#4
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	When it is marked out by such important museum (and motivated by donor´s legends), it is difficult to object. But, in any case, there is something strange in it. Look at another yao knives, which are more conformable to i.g. Shona style. Rivets instead of tongue in that part of Africa ...(?), such collar .... As far as me - the overal shape is more similar to Japanese fishermen boat knives (I knowingly talk a bit; I would vote to Burma or something Central Asian), than to African styles which I met till now. But, the life is neverending study... I mentioned following story here before, so I apologize: cca 20 years ago I have given my nice knife from Finland to my friend, who was travelling to Ongota tribe in southern Ethiopia. My friend was linguist and he studdied those tribes. Once he was present to the childbirth there and so - he became something like godfather. So I gave him the Finland knife when he was going to visit the willage and to call on the boy after years - since he did not have any suitable gift with him. I hope nobody will donate this Finland knife to any museum as tradditional Ongota knife. I know this differs from the Yao case and I do not want to flout authorities, but, there could be something similar in it ...

6th November 2014, 01:39 PM	#5
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	In my personal opinion, these are not continental SEA. The general blade profile, fullering and ivory handles are strikingly similar to knives from the region, but the differences are more edifying--the partially exposed tang and bolsters are definitively not correct for that region. Other than this observation of questionable value, I am clueless as to origin.

6th November 2014, 05:23 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	I am with you Detlef. African knife makers make the most crude and some of the most wonderful quality knives but this is not one from Africa. How and why the museum has it wrong I do not know?