Takouba supposedly from the 30's

[Shakethetrees]

A good, acceptable, answer might be to just say it is twentieth century, and if further focus is needed to call it pre war or post war.

WWII brought a lot of materials and outside exposure to places that were before the war, isolated from outsiders.

A lot of debris wound up following armies to North Africa (as well as everywhere else!). Magazines, stuff from the civilian market, etc., could have been picked up from trash piles or traded and, to use a recently coined word that is now currently in fashion, "repurposed" in unexpected ways. One thing that comes to mind are the Chinese daggers with fake tortoise shell grips, where cellophane or some other clear flexible material was wrapped over cigarette box paper to create a poor imitation of shell. How well this held up over time is reflective on the their scarcity.

Sometime even construction methods have been upgraded due to this exposure. The surplus of available steel and brass and other metals and new materials made piecing together in the old manner not necessary anymore. Aluminum crept into the picture, used in grips and mountings from Afghanistan to the Philippines and elsewhere.

New tools and the availability of electricity and acetylene torches had a tremendous impact on manufacturing, leaving its fingerprint primarily as grind marks and welding beads not ground and finished out.

The study of these traditional weapons made using non traditional materials could be an interesting study on its own.

But I digress...

My point is to say that all of this should be taken into consideration when dating a weapon, or any other bit of cultural material, for that matter.

We are living just past the largest shift ever witnessed where old methods and materials disappeared and new ones emerged.

[blue lander]

Would it be a stretch to put it pre WWII? I think its older than my other takoubas because the pommel cap is solid brass rather than stacked discs, and the fullers look forged rather than chiseled.

[Martin Lubojacky]

I think the question of pommel - if it is made of solid material or stacked discs, is more regional matter than the matter of the age (solid pommel - southern Sahel region, like North Nigeria, Cameroon, discs - desert). But this seems so be desert/Touareg like, but solid at the same time - I mean quick method of production, simplification, newer item. Maybe I am oversimplifying and wrong. I would personaly be interested in Iain´s opinion.
Regards,
Martin

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

A good, acceptable, answer might be to just say it is twentieth century, and if further focus is needed to call it pre war or post war.

WWII brought a lot of materials and outside exposure to places that were before the war, isolated from outsiders.

A lot of debris wound up following armies to North Africa (as well as everywhere else!). Magazines, stuff from the civilian market, etc., could have been picked up from trash piles or traded and, to use a recently coined word that is now currently in fashion, "repurposed" in unexpected ways. One thing that comes to mind are the Chinese daggers with fake tortoise shell grips, where cellophane or some other clear flexible material was wrapped over cigarette box paper to create a poor imitation of shell. How well this held up over time is reflective on the their scarcity.



Sometime even construction methods have been upgraded due to this exposure. The surplus of available steel and brass and other metals and new materials made piecing together in the old manner not necessary anymore. Aluminum crept into the picture, used in grips and mountings from Afghanistan to the Philippines and elsewhere.



New tools and the availability of electricity and acetylene torches had a tremendous impact on manufacturing, leaving its fingerprint primarily as grind marks and welding beads not ground and finished out.

The study of these traditional weapons made using non traditional materials could be an interesting study on its own.

But I digress...

My point is to say that all of this should be taken into consideration when dating a weapon, or any other bit of cultural material, for that matter.

We are living just past the largest shift ever witnessed where old methods and materials disappeared and new ones emerged.

What an excellent summary , very well thought out.

[Iain]

To be perfectly honest I've spent the least amount of time studying the stacked pommel form. So...

I'd say the sword could be pre WWII, but I'd be more likely to assume it's 1950s-1970s.

The pommel stack is decently made, but is not particularly well executed. A tell tale sign is also that the base element is two flat discs. On older swords you see a slight curve to the top base plate. This is due to the heritage of the stacked design being derived from the oval pommel design.

The leather work is certainly much more recent.

In general I would hesitate to try and pin it down to a decade and just say second half of the 20th century.

Hopefully the attached image will help to illustrate my point about the pommel.