Unknown Indonesian sword

paolo · 27th October 2014, 12:04 PM

Just a guess. On the van Zonneveld book page 61 (fig.185) there is a similar one quoted as KASO.
Paolo

Sajen · 27th October 2014, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paolo

Just a guess. On the van Zonneveld book page 61 (fig.185) there is a similar one quoted as KASO.
Paolo

Hello Paolo,

have thought about this as well but the blade shape and also the handle is quite different. And a kaso is also longer, look what is written there about the use of a kaso.
I think that the suggestion from Barry that it could be a swagger-stick is a very good one.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 27th October 2014, 01:19 PM

It is probable that this weapon is of Lombok origin where it would be known as a tempius or a sendirung.

The designation of "cundrik" --- or perhaps more correctly "cunderik" --- seems to be a very confused one that can range all the way from klewang type weapons to small daggers that women hide in their clothing. However, the item that Tim has shown in post #2 is definitely identified as a cunderik by Djelenga.

But Tim's item is significantly different to the item Detlef has posted.

If we are prepared to accept Djelenga as arbiter, this is probably more correctly either a sendirung or a tempius --- at least on Lombok.

As an aside, I've never really been able to understand how the designation of "cunderik" can be applied to anything other than a small weapon. As a dhapur the word refers to a small type of keris, but an even greater argument against the application of "cunderik" to something large is the fact that Indonesian and Malay languages tend to be very onomatopoeic, in other words the sound of a word is very often , perhaps usually, indicative of the nature of the thing it describes, thus little things sound little, big things sound big, and in at least a Javanese sense, the word "cunderik" sounds little.

Long ago I asked a member of the family of the Mangkunegara exactly what a cunderik was, I met him in the museum attached to the Mangkunegaraan, and he took me across the room and showed me a display case full of extremely elegant women's(?) daggers, quite small, and very expensively mounted. To him, these were cunderik.

Sajen · 28th October 2014, 12:49 PM

Thank you Alan for your very informative respond!

Regards,
Detlef

27th October 2014, 12:04 PM	#1
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	Just a guess. On the van Zonneveld book page 61 (fig.185) there is a similar one quoted as KASO. Paolo

27th October 2014, 01:19 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,988	It is probable that this weapon is of Lombok origin where it would be known as a tempius or a sendirung. The designation of "cundrik" --- or perhaps more correctly "cunderik" --- seems to be a very confused one that can range all the way from klewang type weapons to small daggers that women hide in their clothing. However, the item that Tim has shown in post #2 is definitely identified as a cunderik by Djelenga. But Tim's item is significantly different to the item Detlef has posted. If we are prepared to accept Djelenga as arbiter, this is probably more correctly either a sendirung or a tempius --- at least on Lombok. As an aside, I've never really been able to understand how the designation of "cunderik" can be applied to anything other than a small weapon. As a dhapur the word refers to a small type of keris, but an even greater argument against the application of "cunderik" to something large is the fact that Indonesian and Malay languages tend to be very onomatopoeic, in other words the sound of a word is very often , perhaps usually, indicative of the nature of the thing it describes, thus little things sound little, big things sound big, and in at least a Javanese sense, the word "cunderik" sounds little. Long ago I asked a member of the family of the Mangkunegara exactly what a cunderik was, I met him in the museum attached to the Mangkunegaraan, and he took me across the room and showed me a display case full of extremely elegant women's(?) daggers, quite small, and very expensively mounted. To him, these were cunderik.

28th October 2014, 12:49 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,161	Thank you Alan for your very informative respond! Regards, Detlef