hmong knife from French Guiana

blue lander · 22nd October 2014, 07:59 PM

Better pictures.

The seller said the knife had never been used, but there's a couple minor dings in the edge so somebody used it at some point. The edge towards the tip was a bit dull, but further down it's still sharp enough to shave the hair off my arm.

The black bits holding the sheath togeather are some sort of plastic. They slide off fairly easily, allowing you to disassemble the sheath. I'm not sure what the rope is made out of but it doesn't feel synthetic to me.

blue lander · 24th October 2014, 08:46 PM

I etched the blade. I used citric acid rather than FeCL this time, and it worked a lot better. It takes much longer for the acid to work, but you have much more control over the process and the results are better.

Interesting that nearly 1/3rd of the blade seems to be hardened especially around the belly. I wonder if there's some advantage for having so much hardened steel behind the impact point, or if it's just so you can sharpen it more times before you hit the soft stuff.

Edit: You can't really see it in the pictures, but I think there's another quench line much closer to the edge. Perhaps the cutting edge is tempered extra hard with somewhat less hardened steel behind it, followed but unhardened steel for the "body" and spine of the knife.

Ian · 26th October 2014, 12:38 AM

Hi Blue:

Interesting knife. I think it was quenched in a fairly deep container of oil to get that extensive line of hardening. Not surprising that it would take a keen edge.

Ian.

blue lander · 26th October 2014, 04:11 PM

It's definitely sharper than any store bought knife I've owned. I'm tempted to take it out to the yard and trim some branches but that crack in the hilt worries me. Snakewood is supposed to be one of the hardest/densest woods in the world, though.

kronckew · 27th October 2014, 05:04 PM

curiously, i just order a pair of enep/hmong knives from aranyik, thailand within the last hour

a 12.5 in. bladed enep one with a wood scabbard with braided rattan bands, 20 in. overall, the blade is 6 mm thick at the grip, distal taper down to 3.5 mm.

a 10.25 in. hmong/enep , in. 16 in. overall, 6mm blade tapering to 3mm. with a folded bamboo basket scabbard.

both 5160 steel with partial tangs. edges are convex ground & advertised as razor sharp. i have a pair of daab swords from the area that were differentially hardened in oil and have a distinct 'hamon', maybe these two will be as well.

look very much like yours above. your crack looks a bit big for filling with std superglue, maybe a high viscosity (gel) superglue, or a slow cure epoxy mixed with a bit of similar coloured sawdust may be better. if you turn it into a heavy user, it might be worth drilling a hole thru the bolster & inserting a steel pin thru it and the tang stub, which is likely quite short.

blue lander · 27th October 2014, 06:29 PM

I really like those daabs.

I know Thai knives/swords have a reputation for stubby tangs, but I just checked the tang on this Hmong knife and it goes nearly 2/3rds of the length of the hilt! It's about the exact length of the crack, which I'm sure is not a coincidence. I was thinking of filling the crack with gorilla glue since it'll expand into the crack.

kronckew · 27th October 2014, 06:37 PM

last time i did that i had foamy gorilla glue all over the place, definitely do not wait for it to harden before you trim it. i was gluing an alpine spike ferrule on the end of a fokos/ciupaga walking stick axe. the dollup of glue expanded and pushed the ferrule off. i removed some foam reseated it, and the foam pushed it off again. removed more foam, cut a shallow relief groove, reseated it and kept cleaning foam oozing out for about an hour. it finally stopped. that ferrule ain't coming off no how, no way, not ever

i barely managed to keep my hands from getting stuck to the axe shaft.

the longer sword has a 1 in. wide tang about 3/8" thick that goes all the way to just before the pommel, then has a short screw rod welded to it to hold the pommel nut that holds it all together., which is also a counterweight. the bolster is about 3/16 thick stainless steel. the shorter one was polished unlike the longer one which is etched to show the hamon, but is the same steel &heat treatment. it has two pins thru the tang that you can see, which again is about an inch wide and terminates threaded into the pommel.

they were made by serge cozun darbs, in aranyik, but he started having QC problems and no longer is on the interweb. the smiths in aranyik however still keep on making these swords and knives the same as they have done for centuries.

22nd October 2014, 07:59 PM	#1
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Better pictures. The seller said the knife had never been used, but there's a couple minor dings in the edge so somebody used it at some point. The edge towards the tip was a bit dull, but further down it's still sharp enough to shave the hair off my arm. The black bits holding the sheath togeather are some sort of plastic. They slide off fairly easily, allowing you to disassemble the sheath. I'm not sure what the rope is made out of but it doesn't feel synthetic to me. Attached Images

24th October 2014, 08:46 PM	#2
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I etched the blade. I used citric acid rather than FeCL this time, and it worked a lot better. It takes much longer for the acid to work, but you have much more control over the process and the results are better. Interesting that nearly 1/3rd of the blade seems to be hardened especially around the belly. I wonder if there's some advantage for having so much hardened steel behind the impact point, or if it's just so you can sharpen it more times before you hit the soft stuff. Edit: You can't really see it in the pictures, but I think there's another quench line much closer to the edge. Perhaps the cutting edge is tempered extra hard with somewhat less hardened steel behind it, followed but unhardened steel for the "body" and spine of the knife. Attached Images Last edited by blue lander; 24th October 2014 at 09:32 PM.

27th October 2014, 05:04 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,239	curiously, i just order a pair of enep/hmong knives from aranyik, thailand within the last hour a 12.5 in. bladed enep one with a wood scabbard with braided rattan bands, 20 in. overall, the blade is 6 mm thick at the grip, distal taper down to 3.5 mm. a 10.25 in. hmong/enep , in. 16 in. overall, 6mm blade tapering to 3mm. with a folded bamboo basket scabbard. both 5160 steel with partial tangs. edges are convex ground & advertised as razor sharp. i have a pair of daab swords from the area that were differentially hardened in oil and have a distinct 'hamon', maybe these two will be as well. look very much like yours above. your crack looks a bit big for filling with std superglue, maybe a high viscosity (gel) superglue, or a slow cure epoxy mixed with a bit of similar coloured sawdust may be better. if you turn it into a heavy user, it might be worth drilling a hole thru the bolster & inserting a steel pin thru it and the tang stub, which is likely quite short. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 27th October 2014 at 05:33 PM.

27th October 2014, 06:37 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,239	last time i did that i had foamy gorilla glue all over the place, definitely do not wait for it to harden before you trim it. i was gluing an alpine spike ferrule on the end of a fokos/ciupaga walking stick axe. the dollup of glue expanded and pushed the ferrule off. i removed some foam reseated it, and the foam pushed it off again. removed more foam, cut a shallow relief groove, reseated it and kept cleaning foam oozing out for about an hour. it finally stopped. that ferrule ain't coming off no how, no way, not ever i barely managed to keep my hands from getting stuck to the axe shaft. the longer sword has a 1 in. wide tang about 3/8" thick that goes all the way to just before the pommel, then has a short screw rod welded to it to hold the pommel nut that holds it all together., which is also a counterweight. the bolster is about 3/16 thick stainless steel. the shorter one was polished unlike the longer one which is etched to show the hamon, but is the same steel &heat treatment. it has two pins thru the tang that you can see, which again is about an inch wide and terminates threaded into the pommel. they were made by serge cozun darbs, in aranyik, but he started having QC problems and no longer is on the interweb. the smiths in aranyik however still keep on making these swords and knives the same as they have done for centuries. Last edited by kronckew; 27th October 2014 at 06:48 PM.

26th October 2014, 12:38 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,454	Hi Blue: Interesting knife. I think it was quenched in a fairly deep container of oil to get that extensive line of hardening. Not surprising that it would take a keen edge. Ian.

26th October 2014, 04:11 PM	#4
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	It's definitely sharper than any store bought knife I've owned. I'm tempted to take it out to the yard and trim some branches but that crack in the hilt worries me. Snakewood is supposed to be one of the hardest/densest woods in the world, though.

27th October 2014, 06:29 PM	#6
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I really like those daabs. I know Thai knives/swords have a reputation for stubby tangs, but I just checked the tang on this Hmong knife and it goes nearly 2/3rds of the length of the hilt! It's about the exact length of the crack, which I'm sure is not a coincidence. I was thinking of filling the crack with gorilla glue since it'll expand into the crack.