How to get new leather/hide old ?

Shakethetrees · 7th October 2014, 12:53 AM

Lexol attempts to " feed" leather, as does lanolin.

Stay away from all products that are not reversible.

Shoe polish or Renaissance Wax protects without chemically altering the stuff it's supposed to protect.

Martin Lubojacky · 7th October 2014, 08:29 AM

Yes, I fully agree, there is big danger with using of "feeding" products which are not reversible. On the other hand, a think there is difference among various such products.

For examle:
I do not have any experience with Lexol, but it is quite obvious, that Lexol is "commercial name" of product and I am not sure, if we know its real and exact (chemical) composition (and rates of ingredients) - detailed recipe is not always put out. On the other side, Lanolin is so called "chemical trivial name" of an essential and natural substance (composed of various chemicals, but the composition is well known to professional all over the world). From Wiki: Lanolin is a wax. Historically, many pharmacopoeias have referred to lanolin as wool fat; however, as lanolin lacks glycerides (glycerol esters), it is not a true fat. Lanolin primarily consists of sterol esters instead. Lanolin's waterproofing property aids sheep in shedding water from their coats.... Lanolin's role in nature is to protect wool and skin against the ravages of climate and the environment;...

But to shorten this input: Once I discussed with the restorers of Náprstek´s Muzeum in Prague the problematics of collecting African artefacts and we spoke about old shields made of heavy leather, too. Their standpoint was not clear to mee too much since they would like to avoid everything and if possible to close items to some specialised depositories/safes, where everything would be constant. Nevertheless they admitted, that if necessary, solution of Lanolin could be used - but in a small quantities and very carefully....
(nevertheless, this problematic is far away from what I am trying to solve now - how to make new leather old...)

Martin Lubojacky · 7th October 2014, 08:44 AM

Small addition from my experience:

If restorers from museums in Prague recommends anything, they always operate with chemicals or on the substances level - never commercial products (i.e. as far as terminology is concerned). I think restorers have generally mapped leverage on the chemical level, in the case of lanolin its molecular interactions with the chemical bonds in the leather.

Kubur · 7th October 2014, 09:20 AM

Hello,

I have a problem with the leather of an old Mandingo sword.
- Scabbard and grip -
What can I do to consolidate the cracks in the leather?
Some cracks are quite big...
Thank you

Best,
Kubur

Shakethetrees · 7th October 2014, 04:40 PM

Simply put: were swerving into the territory of organic chemistry.

I'm sure there are ways to help old leather at the theoretical level under strict laboratory conditions.

Most of us out here in the real world do not have the training, facilities or narrowly defined interest to achieve this level of success.

Therefore, I would suggest that the various home remedies and commercial products are not suitable.

Remember that commercial products are developed to appeal to the largest market share they can get. Antique leather is such a minuscule percentage of the leather market at large that this should be evident.

Over time, the chemistry in leather changes as it ages. The proof is surface flaking, red rot, stiffness, brittleness, etc. Something that is formulated for leather in its original state is just not suitable for the different (aged) material.

Martin Lubojacky · 21st October 2014, 06:56 PM

Finally, we made the sheath "somehow old" (ethanol treatment and flame annealing). "Original" sheath looked like this: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=3912(the sword was bought years ago from Artzi and Avner). The wooden body of the sheath was new that time, so we decided to replace the leather (also new taht time) and the fittings. After several attempts it is not so bad, I think final result is better, than it was before.
Thanks for consultation.
Martin

21st October 2014, 06:56 PM	#6
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 845	Finally, we made the sheath "somehow old" (ethanol treatment and flame annealing). "Original" sheath looked like this: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=3912(the sword was bought years ago from Artzi and Avner). The wooden body of the sheath was new that time, so we decided to replace the leather (also new taht time) and the fittings. After several attempts it is not so bad, I think final result is better, than it was before. Thanks for consultation. Martin Attached Images

7th October 2014, 12:53 AM	#1
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	Lexol attempts to " feed" leather, as does lanolin. Stay away from all products that are not reversible. Shoe polish or Renaissance Wax protects without chemically altering the stuff it's supposed to protect.

7th October 2014, 08:29 AM	#2
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 845	Yes, I fully agree, there is big danger with using of "feeding" products which are not reversible. On the other hand, a think there is difference among various such products. For examle: I do not have any experience with Lexol, but it is quite obvious, that Lexol is "commercial name" of product and I am not sure, if we know its real and exact (chemical) composition (and rates of ingredients) - detailed recipe is not always put out. On the other side, Lanolin is so called "chemical trivial name" of an essential and natural substance (composed of various chemicals, but the composition is well known to professional all over the world). From Wiki: Lanolin is a wax. Historically, many pharmacopoeias have referred to lanolin as wool fat; however, as lanolin lacks glycerides (glycerol esters), it is not a true fat. Lanolin primarily consists of sterol esters instead. Lanolin's waterproofing property aids sheep in shedding water from their coats.... Lanolin's role in nature is to protect wool and skin against the ravages of climate and the environment;... But to shorten this input: Once I discussed with the restorers of Náprstek´s Muzeum in Prague the problematics of collecting African artefacts and we spoke about old shields made of heavy leather, too. Their standpoint was not clear to mee too much since they would like to avoid everything and if possible to close items to some specialised depositories/safes, where everything would be constant. Nevertheless they admitted, that if necessary, solution of Lanolin could be used - but in a small quantities and very carefully.... (nevertheless, this problematic is far away from what I am trying to solve now - how to make new leather old...)

7th October 2014, 08:44 AM	#3
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 845	Small addition from my experience: If restorers from museums in Prague recommends anything, they always operate with chemicals or on the substances level - never commercial products (i.e. as far as terminology is concerned). I think restorers have generally mapped leverage on the chemical level, in the case of lanolin its molecular interactions with the chemical bonds in the leather.

7th October 2014, 09:20 AM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hello, I have a problem with the leather of an old Mandingo sword. - Scabbard and grip - What can I do to consolidate the cracks in the leather? Some cracks are quite big... Thank you Best, Kubur

7th October 2014, 04:40 PM	#5
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	Simply put: were swerving into the territory of organic chemistry. I'm sure there are ways to help old leather at the theoretical level under strict laboratory conditions. Most of us out here in the real world do not have the training, facilities or narrowly defined interest to achieve this level of success. Therefore, I would suggest that the various home remedies and commercial products are not suitable. Remember that commercial products are developed to appeal to the largest market share they can get. Antique leather is such a minuscule percentage of the leather market at large that this should be evident. Over time, the chemistry in leather changes as it ages. The proof is surface flaking, red rot, stiffness, brittleness, etc. Something that is formulated for leather in its original state is just not suitable for the different (aged) material.