New Mystery Dagger

Nirghosa · 28th September 2014, 06:50 PM

I have a very similar Punyal. Near identical blade profile and wooden handle.

Robert · 28th September 2014, 07:47 PM

Hello Nirghosa,
As it could possibly be of great help could you please post a photo of your punyal for comparison with mine?

Detlef,
I again hope that you are correct in your opinion of the hilt material and that the scabbard as well.

Dave,
Being that the Philippines were (somewhat) under Spanish control for close to 400 years their influence shows itself in many of the edged weapons, Luzon in particular. I hope that you can remember where you have seen another blade of similar shape before as I have only seen some that vaguely resemble it on as I stated earlier Mexican bowie knives. The length of the upper edge (whether false or sharpened) is what is throwing me the most on this piece. It gives it an almost gunong appearance. I also agree with your explanation of where the tin (if that is what it turns out to be) originated from. As for age I must (for now) stick to my original opinion that it is pre WWII, but that could change once it has arrived and I have had time to inspect it. My thanks to everyone that has replied so far for your interest and opinions on this piece.

Best,
Robert

Ian · 28th September 2014, 08:42 PM

Hello Robert:

Nice knife. I think it is very likely to be Filipino and mid-20th C from Luzon. There are other examples of deeply clipped blades like this, mainly coming from Cebu right after WWII. Here is one of mine with an aluminum hilt that is dated 1947. Not exactly the same blade but similar. These were probably influenced by GIs who wanted to take home a souvenir in a more western style than a talibon.

I think yours is probably post-WWII in manufacture because of the metal sheath--others have already noted that after WWII certain types of metal were available from tin cans and downed planes that allowed enterprising Filipinos to explore alternative materials.

Ian.

Nirghosa · 29th September 2014, 11:04 PM

sure

Robert · 1st October 2014, 05:19 AM

The knife arrived today so some of the questions I had are now answered. Detlef, you are correct again and the scabbard is in fact made of brass and not tin as I was told. When I first unpacked it I was sure (because of the grayish color) it was tin, but after a quick wipe with a little soap on a damp cloth to my surprise it turned from the gray color to tarnished greenish brown brass. The edges of the brass on the back of the sheath have a broken solder joint where they once overlapped from throat to the broken tip. Sadly the hilt material is not horn, but is wood just as the seller stated and has several cracks, splits and other damage. The ferrule next to the brass guard might be a replacement as it is poorly made from a very thin piece of brass that is just wrapped around the damaged end of the hilt and shows no sign of ever being soldered. Unlike the front brass ferrule the one on the end of the hilt and the butt cap are both made of steel and unlike the other are fitted to follow the contours of the wooden grip. The blade surprisingly is laminated and though a little thinner than I would have expected is still very sharp. Other than the front brass ferrule this was/is a very well made knife that would have served its owner well for general use and protection if needed. Photos to follow when I have had more time to clean and tidy this up a bit.

Best,
Robert

29th September 2014, 11:04 PM	#4
Nirghosa Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 119	sure Attached Images

28th September 2014, 06:50 PM	#1
Nirghosa Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 119	I have a very similar Punyal. Near identical blade profile and wooden handle.

28th September 2014, 07:47 PM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Nirghosa, As it could possibly be of great help could you please post a photo of your punyal for comparison with mine? Detlef, I again hope that you are correct in your opinion of the hilt material and that the scabbard as well. Dave, Being that the Philippines were (somewhat) under Spanish control for close to 400 years their influence shows itself in many of the edged weapons, Luzon in particular. I hope that you can remember where you have seen another blade of similar shape before as I have only seen some that vaguely resemble it on as I stated earlier Mexican bowie knives. The length of the upper edge (whether false or sharpened) is what is throwing me the most on this piece. It gives it an almost gunong appearance. I also agree with your explanation of where the tin (if that is what it turns out to be) originated from. As for age I must (for now) stick to my original opinion that it is pre WWII, but that could change once it has arrived and I have had time to inspect it. My thanks to everyone that has replied so far for your interest and opinions on this piece. Best, Robert

28th September 2014, 08:42 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,360	Hello Robert: Nice knife. I think it is very likely to be Filipino and mid-20th C from Luzon. There are other examples of deeply clipped blades like this, mainly coming from Cebu right after WWII. Here is one of mine with an aluminum hilt that is dated 1947. Not exactly the same blade but similar. These were probably influenced by GIs who wanted to take home a souvenir in a more western style than a talibon. I think yours is probably post-WWII in manufacture because of the metal sheath--others have already noted that after WWII certain types of metal were available from tin cans and downed planes that allowed enterprising Filipinos to explore alternative materials. Ian.

1st October 2014, 05:19 AM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	The knife arrived today so some of the questions I had are now answered. Detlef, you are correct again and the scabbard is in fact made of brass and not tin as I was told. When I first unpacked it I was sure (because of the grayish color) it was tin, but after a quick wipe with a little soap on a damp cloth to my surprise it turned from the gray color to tarnished greenish brown brass. The edges of the brass on the back of the sheath have a broken solder joint where they once overlapped from throat to the broken tip. Sadly the hilt material is not horn, but is wood just as the seller stated and has several cracks, splits and other damage. The ferrule next to the brass guard might be a replacement as it is poorly made from a very thin piece of brass that is just wrapped around the damaged end of the hilt and shows no sign of ever being soldered. Unlike the front brass ferrule the one on the end of the hilt and the butt cap are both made of steel and unlike the other are fitted to follow the contours of the wooden grip. The blade surprisingly is laminated and though a little thinner than I would have expected is still very sharp. Other than the front brass ferrule this was/is a very well made knife that would have served its owner well for general use and protection if needed. Photos to follow when I have had more time to clean and tidy this up a bit. Best, Robert