Plains stone axe for ?ing

Tim Simmons · 13th September 2014, 12:04 PM

Doing lots of searching and research on this piece. Not wanting to fill this post with a multitude of links. It is quite possible that this piece is a ceremonial tomahawk, "tomahawk" being rather a misnomer for the original stone axe version. Stone axes were used in dance, ceremony, and as gifts in diplomacy.

VANDOO · 13th September 2014, 07:49 PM

THERE IS ANOTHER SIDE TO THIS FORM OF PRODUCTION. THE TRIBES WERE TAKEN FROM THEIR LANDS AND PUT ON RESERVATIONS AND NO LONGER ALLOWED TO WANDER, HUNT OR MAKE WAR EVEN ON EACH OTHER. OLD TRIBAL TRADITIONS AND BELIEFS WERE REPRESSED AND MANY LOST THEIR WAY OR BECAME VICTIMS OF WHISKY. EVEN GRANAMO MADE AND SOLD BOWS AND ARROWS AND LEARNED TO WRITE HIS NAME SO AS TO SELL AUTOGRAPHS TO PROVIDE MONEY FOR HIS NEEDS. THE TRIBES MADE MANY TRADITIONAL ITEMS DURING THIS TIME OF SUBSISTENCE LIVING AND SOLD THEM TO TRADERS OR IN SMALL STANDS ALONG THE MAIN ROADS. BASKETS, POTTERY, CLOTHES, BEAD WORK, BLANKETS AND SOME WEAPONS WERE MADE AND SOLD. SOME LEARNED TO SIGN THEIR NAMES TO POTTERY OR KACHINA DOLLS WHICH ARE NOW HIGHLY COLLECTIBLE. TODAY SOME NATIVE AMERICAN ARTISTS STILL MAKE GOOD TRADITIONAL ITEMS FOR SALE IN SHOPS OR IN ROADSIDE STANDS.
ITEMS WERE SOLD AT THE MANY WILD WEST SHOWS THAT WERE POPULAR AS WELL AND NOTABLE CHIEFS AND WARRIORS OFTEN APPEARED IN THEM. BUFFALO BILL, PAWNEE BILL AMONG OTHERS TOURED WITH THEIR SHOWS EVEN TO EUROPE. ITEMS ASSOCIATED WITH THESE SHOWS ARE SOUGHT AFTER BY COLLECTORS.
THERE ARE FAKES OR MODERN REPLICAS AS WELL AS ITEMS MADE BY NATIVE ARTISTS BEING MADE TODAY BUT MIXED IN AMONG THEM ARE THE OLD AUTHENTIC ITEMS FROM THE SHINING TIMES AND FROM THE SAD RESERVATION TIMES UP TO THE PRESENT. A INTERESTING BUT VERY DIFFICULT FIELD IN WHICH TO COLLECT.
THE AX IN QUESTION APPEARS TO BE WELL MADE AND WILL SERVE AS A GOOD REPRESENTATIVE ITEM OF THE TYPE WEATHER RECENT OR FROM THE DAYS OF THE WILD WEST SHOWS. SOMETIMES THEY STILL CARRY SUCH MODERN TRIBAL MADE REPLICA ITEMS TODAY AT THE TRIBAL POW WOWS HERE IN OKLAHOMA. SO THESE ITEMS MADE BY THE TRIBES AND STILL USED MIGHT BE CONSIDERED CURRENT ETHNOGRAPHIC ITEMS RATHER THAN REPLICAS.

ONCE AGAIN IT WOULD BE A MATTER OF PROVIDENCE AS THE DETERMINING FACTOR.

Tim Simmons · 16th September 2014, 01:07 PM

Here I present qualified printed reference to my suggestions. This exert is taken from.
" Collecting Indian Knives Identification and Value, Lar Holthem, Includes Paleo, Archaic, Woodland-Mississippian, Hafted knives, Caches, Ceremonial, Historic, Plus Much More. Books Americana 1986 "

The blade on this example of artwork relates to much of the perhistoric forms, on the plains, that is possibly not much more than 300 years ago or so.

Tim Simmons · 19th September 2014, 10:54 AM

Looking for similar pieces. I found this lovely double horn pointed example in the Brooklyn museum. Plus to me, rather suspect "antique" pieces with prices over $700 {knapped stone} and $500 for the plain example. That is several times more than I would be prepared to pay. Clearly they lack any artistic thought and aesthetic design.

Tim Simmons · 20th September 2014, 04:21 PM

I have just received a very informative book on Plains Indian art. The book put much into perspective. Exert-

After 1891, adaption to the new ways continued with some resisting and others willing to become those called progressives. Under the leadership of their pre-reservation leaders, sub-groups of larger tribes dispersed into settlements throughout the reservations away from agency headquarters. On individually allotted lands, communities grew with government substations, day schools, churches, and non- Indian trading trading posts. Religious groups established boarding schools near agencies. Distant boarding schools sprang up, some in eastern US cities, to remove Native students from tribal society and acculturate them to American lifestyles.
Until 1881, specially adorned garments, footwear, and other accouterments were worn on ceremonial public occasions and signified the owner's status. That year the government officially decreed such ceremonial ans social occasions forbidden and assigned punishments for offenders. Some of these heirloom pieces were exchanged for food and household necessities at newly established trading posts and business near reservations. Merchants stocked seed beads and other art media, and women artisans continued making traditional items and sold their creations to the stores. Thus merchants became middlemen in a newly created market for collectors, museums, and other interested institutions, or individuals visiting the reservation.
Newly made items also adorned children as they began their journeys to distant boarding schools. Upon arrival, these were replaced with uniforms and manufactured shoes. decorated items, some of heirloom quality, also became payments and gifts to school officials, clergy, and doctors. some of these were the beginnings of collections that would find their way into auction houses and museums after several generations of non-Indian owners.
As early as 1885 and until 1914, Native men, women and children preformed in Western-life exhibitions and wild west shows. They returned with cash, art media, and fashions of dress reflective of their cosmopolitan experience. New or recycled but increasingly elaborate traditional garments for performers were now worn for Wild West tours the most well known being Buffalo Bill Cody's show that toured England in 1887 and Europe in 1889-91.

Taken from "The Plains Indians Artists of Earth and Sky, Musee Du Quai Branly, SkiraRizzoli, 2014"

A great museum to visit, not so good for pictures, low light levels no flash so you and your camera need to really know what you are doing.

Native Americans still make art but the Aesthetics have moved on into the late 20th and 21st century.

Yes you can still buy "Indian Art" replicas, fantasy weapons, dream catcher kitsch and rubbish stuff.

buendia · 29th September 2014, 10:30 PM

A few years ago I owned such an axe from SE Denmark. The head was supposedly original 6000 years old. The knapping traces were indeed covered with white patina. The shaft was made according to neolithic finds. There was a golden printed certificate with it... Nevertheless, I own(ed) a lot of neolithic axes from the middle Europe and all of them are polished at least at the very edge.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ps0315e10b.jpg

Tim Simmons · 30th September 2014, 07:12 AM

That's very interesting. I am not suggesting this axe blade IF genuine, is older than 120 years at the most, and was never made for cutting work.

16th September 2014, 01:07 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Here I present qualified printed reference to my suggestions. This exert is taken from. " Collecting Indian Knives Identification and Value, Lar Holthem, Includes Paleo, Archaic, Woodland-Mississippian, Hafted knives, Caches, Ceremonial, Historic, Plus Much More. Books Americana 1986 " The blade on this example of artwork relates to much of the perhistoric forms, on the plains, that is possibly not much more than 300 years ago or so. Attached Images

19th September 2014, 10:54 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Looking for similar pieces. I found this lovely double horn pointed example in the Brooklyn museum. Plus to me, rather suspect "antique" pieces with prices over $700 {knapped stone} and $500 for the plain example. That is several times more than I would be prepared to pay. Clearly they lack any artistic thought and aesthetic design. Attached Images

20th September 2014, 04:21 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Dispersal, objects of traditional aesthetics c1900s. I have just received a very informative book on Plains Indian art. The book put much into perspective. Exert- After 1891, adaption to the new ways continued with some resisting and others willing to become those called progressives. Under the leadership of their pre-reservation leaders, sub-groups of larger tribes dispersed into settlements throughout the reservations away from agency headquarters. On individually allotted lands, communities grew with government substations, day schools, churches, and non- Indian trading trading posts. Religious groups established boarding schools near agencies. Distant boarding schools sprang up, some in eastern US cities, to remove Native students from tribal society and acculturate them to American lifestyles. Until 1881, specially adorned garments, footwear, and other accouterments were worn on ceremonial public occasions and signified the owner's status. That year the government officially decreed such ceremonial ans social occasions forbidden and assigned punishments for offenders. Some of these heirloom pieces were exchanged for food and household necessities at newly established trading posts and business near reservations. Merchants stocked seed beads and other art media, and women artisans continued making traditional items and sold their creations to the stores. Thus merchants became middlemen in a newly created market for collectors, museums, and other interested institutions, or individuals visiting the reservation. Newly made items also adorned children as they began their journeys to distant boarding schools. Upon arrival, these were replaced with uniforms and manufactured shoes. decorated items, some of heirloom quality, also became payments and gifts to school officials, clergy, and doctors. some of these were the beginnings of collections that would find their way into auction houses and museums after several generations of non-Indian owners. As early as 1885 and until 1914, Native men, women and children preformed in Western-life exhibitions and wild west shows. They returned with cash, art media, and fashions of dress reflective of their cosmopolitan experience. New or recycled but increasingly elaborate traditional garments for performers were now worn for Wild West tours the most well known being Buffalo Bill Cody's show that toured England in 1887 and Europe in 1889-91. Taken from "The Plains Indians Artists of Earth and Sky, Musee Du Quai Branly, SkiraRizzoli, 2014" A great museum to visit, not so good for pictures, low light levels no flash so you and your camera need to really know what you are doing. Native Americans still make art but the Aesthetics have moved on into the late 20th and 21st century. Yes you can still buy "Indian Art" replicas, fantasy weapons, dream catcher kitsch and rubbish stuff. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 20th September 2014 at 05:53 PM.

13th September 2014, 12:04 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Doing lots of searching and research on this piece. Not wanting to fill this post with a multitude of links. It is quite possible that this piece is a ceremonial tomahawk, "tomahawk" being rather a misnomer for the original stone axe version. Stone axes were used in dance, ceremony, and as gifts in diplomacy.

13th September 2014, 07:49 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THERE IS ANOTHER SIDE TO THIS FORM OF PRODUCTION. THE TRIBES WERE TAKEN FROM THEIR LANDS AND PUT ON RESERVATIONS AND NO LONGER ALLOWED TO WANDER, HUNT OR MAKE WAR EVEN ON EACH OTHER. OLD TRIBAL TRADITIONS AND BELIEFS WERE REPRESSED AND MANY LOST THEIR WAY OR BECAME VICTIMS OF WHISKY. EVEN GRANAMO MADE AND SOLD BOWS AND ARROWS AND LEARNED TO WRITE HIS NAME SO AS TO SELL AUTOGRAPHS TO PROVIDE MONEY FOR HIS NEEDS. THE TRIBES MADE MANY TRADITIONAL ITEMS DURING THIS TIME OF SUBSISTENCE LIVING AND SOLD THEM TO TRADERS OR IN SMALL STANDS ALONG THE MAIN ROADS. BASKETS, POTTERY, CLOTHES, BEAD WORK, BLANKETS AND SOME WEAPONS WERE MADE AND SOLD. SOME LEARNED TO SIGN THEIR NAMES TO POTTERY OR KACHINA DOLLS WHICH ARE NOW HIGHLY COLLECTIBLE. TODAY SOME NATIVE AMERICAN ARTISTS STILL MAKE GOOD TRADITIONAL ITEMS FOR SALE IN SHOPS OR IN ROADSIDE STANDS. ITEMS WERE SOLD AT THE MANY WILD WEST SHOWS THAT WERE POPULAR AS WELL AND NOTABLE CHIEFS AND WARRIORS OFTEN APPEARED IN THEM. BUFFALO BILL, PAWNEE BILL AMONG OTHERS TOURED WITH THEIR SHOWS EVEN TO EUROPE. ITEMS ASSOCIATED WITH THESE SHOWS ARE SOUGHT AFTER BY COLLECTORS. THERE ARE FAKES OR MODERN REPLICAS AS WELL AS ITEMS MADE BY NATIVE ARTISTS BEING MADE TODAY BUT MIXED IN AMONG THEM ARE THE OLD AUTHENTIC ITEMS FROM THE SHINING TIMES AND FROM THE SAD RESERVATION TIMES UP TO THE PRESENT. A INTERESTING BUT VERY DIFFICULT FIELD IN WHICH TO COLLECT. THE AX IN QUESTION APPEARS TO BE WELL MADE AND WILL SERVE AS A GOOD REPRESENTATIVE ITEM OF THE TYPE WEATHER RECENT OR FROM THE DAYS OF THE WILD WEST SHOWS. SOMETIMES THEY STILL CARRY SUCH MODERN TRIBAL MADE REPLICA ITEMS TODAY AT THE TRIBAL POW WOWS HERE IN OKLAHOMA. SO THESE ITEMS MADE BY THE TRIBES AND STILL USED MIGHT BE CONSIDERED CURRENT ETHNOGRAPHIC ITEMS RATHER THAN REPLICAS. ONCE AGAIN IT WOULD BE A MATTER OF PROVIDENCE AS THE DETERMINING FACTOR.

29th September 2014, 10:30 PM	#6
buendia Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Silesia, Poland Posts: 41	A few years ago I owned such an axe from SE Denmark. The head was supposedly original 6000 years old. The knapping traces were indeed covered with white patina. The shaft was made according to neolithic finds. There was a golden printed certificate with it... Nevertheless, I own(ed) a lot of neolithic axes from the middle Europe and all of them are polished at least at the very edge. http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ps0315e10b.jpg

30th September 2014, 07:12 AM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	That's very interesting. I am not suggesting this axe blade IF genuine, is older than 120 years at the most, and was never made for cutting work.