Bayonet marked with Spital

NigelP · 28th August 2014, 09:38 PM

Here's some....

TVV · 28th August 2014, 11:08 PM

M 1867 Werndl Austrian Bayonet.

Regards,
Teodor

Fernando K · 29th August 2014, 11:12 AM

Hi there:

I fail to see the area of the tip, but I get the impression that is a cut sheet yathagan.

Affectionately. Fernando K

NigelP · 1st September 2014, 09:09 PM

Many thanks for your inputs; not sure the significance of Yathagan (apologies for my ignorance

but having now looked up the Werndl reference I can see many web entries for such things.... most interesting!

Does M1867 mean the year or just the model (or both)? I had assumed this would have been a WW1 piece..... would that be valid? Elsewhere on this website I've had a thread about a Russian Court Sword which turned out to be 1826-ish and I'm trying to see how this all fits into my family history.

I've also got a kukris but more on that later when I've had time to examine and photograph it !

Regards

Nigel

Ken Maddock · 2nd September 2014, 07:11 PM

M 1867 would be the model number and would mean the bayonet could be younger than this but not older
Fernando is saying cut short and not cut sheet as his text says,just a typo I imagine
What this means is the blade originally had curve but has been shortened
Blades with curve such as this we're call,ed yagathan ( not sure on spelling). If the ring is 18.9 mm then it has not been re bushed and would still fit on original rifle

The imperial armies were great re users of weapons an I would imagine this could be wwi as there was lot of re issue to second line regiments
Hope this helps
Ken

M ELEY · 3rd September 2014, 10:01 AM

Not my area of expertise, but a few words. Yataghan style bayonets were French from the 1870's and would have the tracing of 'Klingenthal' (the arsenal where they were produced) on the flat of the blade if this is a cut-down. The reference to yataghans comes from the Turkish and Persian swords of the same name which had curving blades with a T-backed bolster. If you look directly down the blade, do you see a 'T'? If so, Fernando K might be right. I'm unfamiliar with the Austrian model mentioned, but it makes sense as far as the time period.

Kmaddock · 4th September 2014, 11:33 AM

Hi
Yataghan style bayonets were across the nations

Britain had them on the Snider and enfield rifles
Austria had them on the Werndl rifle
the most common is indeed the French Chespot model 1866 bolt-action
very very comon with the brass handle
and of the top of my ghead the Turks had them

The unshortened Werndl's are a lot rarer but do exist

Hope this adds more flesh to the story
regards
Ken

28th August 2014, 09:38 PM	#1
NigelP Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 6	Here's some.... Attached Images

28th August 2014, 11:08 PM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,666	M 1867 Werndl Austrian Bayonet. Regards, Teodor

29th August 2014, 11:12 AM	#3
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hi there: I fail to see the area of the tip, but I get the impression that is a cut sheet yathagan. Affectionately. Fernando K

1st September 2014, 09:09 PM	#4
NigelP Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 6	Many thanks for your inputs; not sure the significance of Yathagan (apologies for my ignorance but having now looked up the Werndl reference I can see many web entries for such things.... most interesting! Does M1867 mean the year or just the model (or both)? I had assumed this would have been a WW1 piece..... would that be valid? Elsewhere on this website I've had a thread about a Russian Court Sword which turned out to be 1826-ish and I'm trying to see how this all fits into my family history. I've also got a kukris but more on that later when I've had time to examine and photograph it ! Regards Nigel

2nd September 2014, 07:11 PM	#5
Ken Maddock Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Posts: 104	M 1867 would be the model number and would mean the bayonet could be younger than this but not older Fernando is saying cut short and not cut sheet as his text says,just a typo I imagine What this means is the blade originally had curve but has been shortened Blades with curve such as this we're call,ed yagathan ( not sure on spelling). If the ring is 18.9 mm then it has not been re bushed and would still fit on original rifle The imperial armies were great re users of weapons an I would imagine this could be wwi as there was lot of re issue to second line regiments Hope this helps Ken

3rd September 2014, 10:01 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Not my area of expertise, but a few words. Yataghan style bayonets were French from the 1870's and would have the tracing of 'Klingenthal' (the arsenal where they were produced) on the flat of the blade if this is a cut-down. The reference to yataghans comes from the Turkish and Persian swords of the same name which had curving blades with a T-backed bolster. If you look directly down the blade, do you see a 'T'? If so, Fernando K might be right. I'm unfamiliar with the Austrian model mentioned, but it makes sense as far as the time period.

4th September 2014, 11:33 AM	#7
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	Hi Yataghan style bayonets were across the nations Britain had them on the Snider and enfield rifles Austria had them on the Werndl rifle the most common is indeed the French Chespot model 1866 bolt-action very very comon with the brass handle and of the top of my ghead the Turks had them The unshortened Werndl's are a lot rarer but do exist Hope this adds more flesh to the story regards Ken