A comparison of Javan blades

RSWORD · 26th August 2014, 12:37 PM

It has been a little quiet on the forum so thought I would start a thread about the variety found in Javan blades. I'm sure near endless but I have 6 examples to share for comment/feedback. I'm curious how everyone would date these from oldest to youngest and what the potential range would be. I understand difficult to do absolutely from pictures so guesses are fine in this scenario. So will number the keris from left to right 1-6. I will start with an overall shot of the group and then a separate posting to show a few more details of each one.

RSWORD · 26th August 2014, 12:39 PM

Example #1. Light blade and fairly narrow.

RSWORD · 26th August 2014, 12:41 PM

Example #2. A heavily textured blade with very black finish.

RSWORD · 26th August 2014, 12:43 PM

Example #3. Unusual blade in that it is narrow at the hilt and widens towards the center. No visible pamor but some lamination lines visible.

RSWORD · 26th August 2014, 12:45 PM

Example #4. Very topographical/textured blade.

RSWORD · 26th August 2014, 12:47 PM

Example #5. A very robust/stout blade.

RSWORD · 26th August 2014, 12:48 PM

Example #6. Long blade with very fine gold work at top of ganja.

David · 26th August 2014, 09:20 PM

I think there is a good possibility that blades 1 & 2 are from Madura, not Jawa. I wouldn't even want to start throwing around dates for these blades, though blade #2 comes off to me as being fairly contemporary.

A. G. Maisey · 26th August 2014, 10:55 PM

OK, I'll bite, but as stated, this is a guessing game.

Guessing, and based on what I can see in the photos.

I am not basing my guesses on most of the things I would rely upon if I were able to examine these keris. This means that anything I say here could be contradicted with better photos or with handling of the blade.
I would like to be able to avoid tangguh/classification, but regrettably I will be compelled to use a little input from this source.

#1 --- North Coast/Tuban, before 1800

#2 --- Madura (Sumenep) 1980's

#3 ---Central Jawa, inferior work, possibly re-shaped, 19th century

#4 --- North Coast, tending to East Jawa; physically the form may related to Tuban, but the pamor work shows Madura influence. Close magnified examination of the construction and material would be necessary to form a defensible opinion, but in compliance with the "rules of the game", I'd give it as 19th century.

#5 --- Central Jawa under the influence of Ngayogyakarta, HB, 19th century. Note "influence of", I am not saying that this is a kraton standard keris, I am saying it is influenced by kraton standards:- the maker had a very good try but didn't quite get there. This is a nice keris. 19th century.

#6 --- Stylistically this would pass for Mataram Sultan Agung, but it is very probably a much later copy, only close magnified examination would confirm or disallow this guess. The kinatah work is probably late 19th century --- and the keris itself may also date from this time. Another nice keris.

Sajen · 27th August 2014, 10:46 AM

Agree that the #2 is a very recent Madura blade. When I could choose one of the blades I would take #5, a very nice blade. Could you show it with the dress?

Regards,
Detlef

RSWORD · 27th August 2014, 12:25 PM

Thanks for participating Alan and providing insight.

Hi Sajen, yes I can add some additional pictures for the dress on #5 and I will also add them for #6 as it is very nice. Give me a few days to get through some busy times at work.

Sajen · 27th August 2014, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Thanks for participating Alan and providing insight.

Hi Sajen, yes I can add some additional pictures for the dress on #5 and I will also add them for #6 as it is very nice. Give me a few days to get through some busy times at work.

Thank you Rick, no problem, I know this problem!

RSWORD · 30th August 2014, 05:07 PM

Hi Sajen,

Finally had an opportunity to post some additional pictures of the dress of two of the examples. This is the one you specifically requested. Nice handle but fairly plain scabbard.

RSWORD · 30th August 2014, 05:09 PM

Here is the dress for the example with gold work. It is very nice.

Sajen · 30th August 2014, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Hi Sajen,

Finally had an opportunity to post some additional pictures of the dress of two of the examples. This is the one you specifically requested. Nice handle but fairly plain scabbard.

Hi Rick,
the scabbard missing it's oversheath (pendok). The keris is worth to look for a fitting one. The blade peek out a little bit, not unusual at all, do you think the dress is made for the blade? A polish with car polish would be good for the upper part of the sheath.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 30th August 2014, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Here is the dress for the example with gold work. It is very nice.

Indeed a very nice dress, please turn the handle by 180 dgree. Also here, a little polish of all parts would let look it more nice.

Gavin Nugent · 31st August 2014, 02:54 PM

Interestingly, I have a Bali Keris here with identical gold work and a Naga or Banda chiselled into the blade.

Nice Keris.

kulbuntet · 26th September 2014, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Hi Sajen,

Finally had an opportunity to post some additional pictures of the dress of two of the examples. This is the one you specifically requested. Nice handle but fairly plain scabbard.

the keris could use a nice pendok and polish of wood, IMO

26th August 2014, 12:48 PM	#7
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Example #6. Long blade with very fine gold work at top of ganja. Attached Images

30th August 2014, 05:07 PM	#13
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Hi Sajen, Finally had an opportunity to post some additional pictures of the dress of two of the examples. This is the one you specifically requested. Nice handle but fairly plain scabbard. Attached Images

30th August 2014, 05:09 PM	#14
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Here is the dress for the example with gold work. It is very nice. Attached Images

31st August 2014, 02:54 PM	#17
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Gold work Interestingly, I have a Bali Keris here with identical gold work and a Naga or Banda chiselled into the blade. Nice Keris.

26th August 2014, 12:37 PM	#1
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	A comparison of Javan blades It has been a little quiet on the forum so thought I would start a thread about the variety found in Javan blades. I'm sure near endless but I have 6 examples to share for comment/feedback. I'm curious how everyone would date these from oldest to youngest and what the potential range would be. I understand difficult to do absolutely from pictures so guesses are fine in this scenario. So will number the keris from left to right 1-6. I will start with an overall shot of the group and then a separate posting to show a few more details of each one. Attached Images

26th August 2014, 12:39 PM	#2
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Example #1. Light blade and fairly narrow. Attached Images

26th August 2014, 12:41 PM	#3
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Example #2. A heavily textured blade with very black finish. Attached Images

26th August 2014, 12:43 PM	#4
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Example #3. Unusual blade in that it is narrow at the hilt and widens towards the center. No visible pamor but some lamination lines visible. Attached Images

26th August 2014, 12:45 PM	#5
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Example #4. Very topographical/textured blade. Attached Images

26th August 2014, 12:47 PM	#6
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Example #5. A very robust/stout blade. Attached Images

26th August 2014, 09:20 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,113	I think there is a good possibility that blades 1 & 2 are from Madura, not Jawa. I wouldn't even want to start throwing around dates for these blades, though blade #2 comes off to me as being fairly contemporary.

26th August 2014, 10:55 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,877	OK, I'll bite, but as stated, this is a guessing game. Guessing, and based on what I can see in the photos. I am not basing my guesses on most of the things I would rely upon if I were able to examine these keris. This means that anything I say here could be contradicted with better photos or with handling of the blade. I would like to be able to avoid tangguh/classification, but regrettably I will be compelled to use a little input from this source. #1 --- North Coast/Tuban, before 1800 #2 --- Madura (Sumenep) 1980's #3 ---Central Jawa, inferior work, possibly re-shaped, 19th century #4 --- North Coast, tending to East Jawa; physically the form may related to Tuban, but the pamor work shows Madura influence. Close magnified examination of the construction and material would be necessary to form a defensible opinion, but in compliance with the "rules of the game", I'd give it as 19th century. #5 --- Central Jawa under the influence of Ngayogyakarta, HB, 19th century. Note "influence of", I am not saying that this is a kraton standard keris, I am saying it is influenced by kraton standards:- the maker had a very good try but didn't quite get there. This is a nice keris. 19th century. #6 --- Stylistically this would pass for Mataram Sultan Agung, but it is very probably a much later copy, only close magnified examination would confirm or disallow this guess. The kinatah work is probably late 19th century --- and the keris itself may also date from this time. Another nice keris.

27th August 2014, 10:46 AM	#10
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,761	Agree that the #2 is a very recent Madura blade. When I could choose one of the blades I would take #5, a very nice blade. Could you show it with the dress? Regards, Detlef

27th August 2014, 12:25 PM	#11
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Thanks for participating Alan and providing insight. Hi Sajen, yes I can add some additional pictures for the dress on #5 and I will also add them for #6 as it is very nice. Give me a few days to get through some busy times at work.