Kris & Sundang twist core Ganja or Gonjo

David · 17th August 2014, 02:08 AM

Well then, let's see if this thread gets any traction here on the keris forum since this is technically an Indonesian Keris.
As was suggested earlier i believe, more images would probably be helpful to the discussion.

A. G. Maisey · 17th August 2014, 03:21 AM

I suggest that adequate photos of the item under discussion would help a lot.

Personally I cannot see sufficient from the posted photo to permit me to make any comment.

A full length photo of the entire keris + a close-up of the sorsoran including gonjo + a close up of the complete top and complete side of the gonjo, all photos taken in full shade would perhaps give sufficiently clear images to permit comment.

Gavin Nugent · 17th August 2014, 05:17 AM

Thanks David,

See what comes about this specific aspect of these Sundang types.

Gustav was good enough to bring one forth from Michael’s earlier postings...that conversation didn't amount to much after presenting the entire piece...Hopefully it might gain traction now 5 years on.
I have linked the other twistie Gongo, albeit an unclear image shown in the thread...

Other Twist core Sundang Gonjo (Or a Kris if it exists) would be more helpful to the discussion about twistcore Gonjo.

Here is the face pattern.

VVV · 17th August 2014, 12:09 PM

Back home again with my swords...
I have now checked all my twist core Moro Kris and Malay Keris Sundang and none, except the one in the link above, have any twist core ganja.
I find this a bit surprising because some of my Moro kris are quite old and otherwise "Keris-like".

Michael

Gavin Nugent · 17th August 2014, 03:52 PM

It is a strange thing Michael...I am sure that there would have been twist core off cuts available at the forge with which to make Moro Kris Ganja....

A. G. Maisey · 18th August 2014, 02:16 AM

From these small, incomplete images it is very difficult to form any opinion, but I think I can say that this gonjo was not made from any off-cut, it was very probably made as a separate forging, specifically for the gonjo.

When we make this type of pamor it tends to distort badly under forging, there are a couple of tricks that can be used to reduce this effect, but to take a piece of pattern welded material such as has been used in the core of this large blade, and bring it down to the size needed for a gonjo forging would cause very heavy distortion, and in the areas of pamor that have been presented for comment, I cannot see any such heavy distortion.

Jean · 18th August 2014, 03:47 PM

Excellent observation Alan, I agree and have noted the same with some recent javanese or madurese krisses also.
Regards

17th August 2014, 05:17 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thanks David, See what comes about this specific aspect of these Sundang types. Gustav was good enough to bring one forth from Michael’s earlier postings...that conversation didn't amount to much after presenting the entire piece...Hopefully it might gain traction now 5 years on. I have linked the other twistie Gongo, albeit an unclear image shown in the thread... Other Twist core Sundang Gonjo (Or a Kris if it exists) would be more helpful to the discussion about twistcore Gonjo. Here is the face pattern. Attached Images

17th August 2014, 02:08 AM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,209	Well then, let's see if this thread gets any traction here on the keris forum since this is technically an Indonesian Keris. As was suggested earlier i believe, more images would probably be helpful to the discussion.

17th August 2014, 03:21 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	I suggest that adequate photos of the item under discussion would help a lot. Personally I cannot see sufficient from the posted photo to permit me to make any comment. A full length photo of the entire keris + a close-up of the sorsoran including gonjo + a close up of the complete top and complete side of the gonjo, all photos taken in full shade would perhaps give sufficiently clear images to permit comment.

17th August 2014, 12:09 PM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Back home again with my swords... I have now checked all my twist core Moro Kris and Malay Keris Sundang and none, except the one in the link above, have any twist core ganja. I find this a bit surprising because some of my Moro kris are quite old and otherwise "Keris-like". Michael

17th August 2014, 03:52 PM	#5
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	It is a strange thing Michael...I am sure that there would have been twist core off cuts available at the forge with which to make Moro Kris Ganja....

18th August 2014, 02:16 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	From these small, incomplete images it is very difficult to form any opinion, but I think I can say that this gonjo was not made from any off-cut, it was very probably made as a separate forging, specifically for the gonjo. When we make this type of pamor it tends to distort badly under forging, there are a couple of tricks that can be used to reduce this effect, but to take a piece of pattern welded material such as has been used in the core of this large blade, and bring it down to the size needed for a gonjo forging would cause very heavy distortion, and in the areas of pamor that have been presented for comment, I cannot see any such heavy distortion.

18th August 2014, 03:47 PM	#7
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Excellent observation Alan, I agree and have noted the same with some recent javanese or madurese krisses also. Regards