keris sajen majapahit marks

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by Rick

I cannot count the number of times since this subforum was founded that people have passed through claiming the knowledge that you claim, my friend .
If it is something that cannot be shared then it is something we cannot discuss; can we ?

So, secret knowledge aside; can we please move on .

Surly you have heard of the Freemasons right, well in silat they have secrets too simple as that Ask a Freemason to show you the handshake or the lost word...he wont do it!

Anyway onwards and upwards, my purpose of making this thread is to establish if these keris markings follow numeric patterns, old vs newer, odd/even, 3,5,7,9 who knows maybe even numbers too.

[A. G. Maisey]

Comment withdrawn.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Anyway onwards and upwards, my purpose of making this thread is to establish if these keris markings follow numeric patterns, old vs newer, odd/even, 3,5,7,9 who knows maybe even numbers too.

Absolutely, onward and upward .

[Pusaka]

The supposed 250 year old 32 paged (interesting number) keris manuscript depicts the Taming sari to have been a keris Picit. Have not read much about the legends surrounding this keris to know if it is consistently depicted as such.
The manuscript goes into detail about such markings but from a Sufi perspective or at least a Sufi interpretation of such markings.

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

The supposed 250 year old 32 paged (interesting number) keris manuscript depicts the Taming sari to have been a keris Picit. Have not read much about the legends surrounding this keris to know if it is consistently depicted as such.
The manuscript goes into detail about such markings but from a Sufi perspective or at least a Sufi interpretation of such markings.

Well, onward perhaps, but i'm not convinced about upwards. Taming Sari is a keris steeped in legend so if the goal of your enquiry is to find out facts about keris picit this might not be the best path for you.
BTW, Taming Sari is supposedly part of the Perak royal regalia and that keris at least is not a keris picit. It would probably not be consistent to legend for Taming Sari to be keris picit since the legends tend to speak of it as a martial weapon, not a talismanic one. I have never seen a keris picit that was meant for or would be suitable for martial activity. They are purely talismanic blades.

[Pusaka]

You failed to understand/interpret the diagram on the left I take it then

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

You failed to understand/interpret the diagram on the left I take it then

Perhaps you can tell us how you interpret it. Unfortunately i don't read the language. Perhaps you can give us an accurate translation since it seems you do.
Of course, simply because a document exists, even one that is 250 years old, that claims to diagram Taming Sari does not mean that it is an accurate description of the actual blade which is supposed to be much older than that in origin. I also wonder about the value of Sufi interpretations about a Mojopahit blade that came out of Hindu cultural context.
BTW, here are images of the blade that in held with the Perak regalia. There seems to be at least some legitimate provenance regarding its lineage, though there are some gaps and questions to be sure. Separating fact from fiction in these cases is always a challenge, often an impossible one.
You might want to actually read up on Taming Sari since you admit that you are not really up on the legends. Interesting story…

[Pusaka]

David

I cant read it either, but the diagram is enough.

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Anyway onwards and upwards, my purpose of making this thread is to establish if these keris markings follow numeric patterns, old vs newer, odd/even, 3,5,7,9 who knows maybe even numbers too.

I am afraid i do not understand the purpose of your last link. It would also be helpful if you stuck to links in English unless you are willing to provide a translation for them. None of this seems to have anything to do with your self-proclaimed purpose for this thread. What exactly are we talking about anyway? What is it that you would like to find out here?

[Gavin Nugent]

Another post from the archives...

Does anyone know is a complete English translation of this document has been made?

[David]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

Another post from the archives...

Does anyone know is a complete English translation of this document has been made?

I'm not sure which document you are referring to, the one shown in post #16 or what Pusaka linked to in post #23.
And i guess these aren't so much documents as diagrams. The link in #23 says the diagram writing is in Siamese so i presume they mean Thai. The diagram in #16 may well be Thai as well. Not sure if we have anyone on board here who is fluent in Thai.

[Gavin Nugent]

#16 David, I consider it a document, the other a weblink.

[David]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

#16 David, I consider it a document, the other a weblink.

Well, i'm not sure if that is Thai or not written on those diagrams, but to my eye i would say that even if i knew the language, that particular image would not make it easy to translate what is written there. So besides finding someone who knows the language i would say they would probably need a better image work from for a complete translation.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by David

Well, i'm not sure if that is Thai or not written on those diagrams, but to my eye i would say that even if i knew the language, that particular image would not make it easy to translate what is written there. So besides finding someone who knows the language i would say they would probably need a better image work from for a complete translation.

David, given that the member posting notes Sufi interpretation and the script does not look Thai, I'd guess that it was old Arabic.

Whilst I understand the complexities you note if one was to present the single image supplied in the article to the forum, I am simply curious to know if anyone within the forum, or external readers who may want to get in touch, know if a translation of the manuscript in full has been completed, or if it is being worked upon?