A sail guard sword - blade for ID

fernando · 18th July 2014, 04:46 PM

Great wisdom, Jim and rather comprehensive observations on the shell wide influence as a symbol, namely its presence in the Espada Ancha, one of your beloved favorites

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In trying to go further into deciphering the inscription, i found i have negleted a little but maybe important detail in identifying the maker's mark; an O circumference/letter/digit on the forte. As it only appears on the right face of the blade, with no counterpart on the left side, i assume it is an intentional mark and not an 'arcane' symbol.

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Jim McDougall · 18th July 2014, 05:29 PM

Thank you so much Nando. Actually as I further continued my research on these mysterious letter grouping I found that such combinations were widely present in Italian blades, usually in repetitive groups of letters in linear fashion and often reversed or changed in the same combination on the other side. It seems with these, the idea of an acrostic would be defeated, though anagram tenuously remains. Even the idea of numeric equivilents would be compromised with these varying arrangements, so at this point we can only continue speculation.
As you point out, the 'O' seems strategically placed so most interesting. I know that on blades in India symbols and other devices seem to be placed in strategic places on blades, of course still unproven, but perhaps to strengthen at least in concept, that particular part of the blade.

It does seem clear that while arcane symbols are sometimes interpolated amid regular capital letters, it is curious as to which letters are selected to be redesigned. If only we could imagine what these guys were thinking!

cornelistromp · 19th July 2014, 09:01 AM

beautiful sword, swords with a boat-shell guard a variation on Norman type 91 occurred between 1630 and 1650 in Western Europe. see, for example, a self portait of Rembrandt with Saskia from 1634.
The pommel is norman type 64 and can be dated around 1630, this corresponds perfectly to the rest.
When I read the text right here; Pedro (Peter) Tesche Berghausen.
Peter Tesche worked as a bladesmith in Solingen in the first half of the 17th century. whether this is actually made by him, and if there is a connection with the place Berghausen in Germany, unfortunately I can not tell you.
the handle of ivory is a subsequent restoration, it is actually too slippery to function.

very beautiful and rare type!

best,
Jasper

fernando · 19th July 2014, 11:49 AM

Ah ... great news, great knowledge Jasper

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It was well worth waiting for your input ... perfect, as always.
Besides my inversion of the blade sides (right and left) i would never make it that a German smith would use the name Pedro instead of Peter.
It really takes a lot of acumulated knowledge to discern these things as you so well often do.
I am contented to have 'almost' cracked a part of the puzzle (Berchausen-Berghausen), which places me in a good position to run for expert class III category

Well Jim, no 'arcanostic' esotérica this time

Dank u wel Jasper

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18th July 2014, 04:46 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Great wisdom, Jim and rather comprehensive observations on the shell wide influence as a symbol, namely its presence in the Espada Ancha, one of your beloved favorites . In trying to go further into deciphering the inscription, i found i have negleted a little but maybe important detail in identifying the maker's mark; an O circumference/letter/digit on the forte. As it only appears on the right face of the blade, with no counterpart on the left side, i assume it is an intentional mark and not an 'arcane' symbol. . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 18th July 2014 at 05:21 PM.

19th July 2014, 09:01 AM	#3
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	beautiful sword, swords with a boat-shell guard a variation on Norman type 91 occurred between 1630 and 1650 in Western Europe. see, for example, a self portait of Rembrandt with Saskia from 1634. The pommel is norman type 64 and can be dated around 1630, this corresponds perfectly to the rest. When I read the text right here; Pedro (Peter) Tesche Berghausen. Peter Tesche worked as a bladesmith in Solingen in the first half of the 17th century. whether this is actually made by him, and if there is a connection with the place Berghausen in Germany, unfortunately I can not tell you. the handle of ivory is a subsequent restoration, it is actually too slippery to function. very beautiful and rare type! best, Jasper Attached Images

19th July 2014, 11:49 AM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Ah ... great news, great knowledge Jasper . It was well worth waiting for your input ... perfect, as always. Besides my inversion of the blade sides (right and left) i would never make it that a German smith would use the name Pedro instead of Peter. It really takes a lot of acumulated knowledge to discern these things as you so well often do. I am contented to have 'almost' cracked a part of the puzzle (Berchausen-Berghausen), which places me in a good position to run for expert class III category Well Jim, no 'arcanostic' esotérica this time Dank u wel Jasper . Last edited by fernando; 19th July 2014 at 12:45 PM.

18th July 2014, 05:29 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Thank you so much Nando. Actually as I further continued my research on these mysterious letter grouping I found that such combinations were widely present in Italian blades, usually in repetitive groups of letters in linear fashion and often reversed or changed in the same combination on the other side. It seems with these, the idea of an acrostic would be defeated, though anagram tenuously remains. Even the idea of numeric equivilents would be compromised with these varying arrangements, so at this point we can only continue speculation. As you point out, the 'O' seems strategically placed so most interesting. I know that on blades in India symbols and other devices seem to be placed in strategic places on blades, of course still unproven, but perhaps to strengthen at least in concept, that particular part of the blade. It does seem clear that while arcane symbols are sometimes interpolated amid regular capital letters, it is curious as to which letters are selected to be redesigned. If only we could imagine what these guys were thinking!