Pietro Hernandez swordmaker

[Jim McDougall]

In rechecking my references, and I wanted to add the note here so as not to be lost in my previous and huge text.....I found this in the same page in Boeheim, p.669:

A marking of an S transposed over a T and surmounted by a G as to PEDRO HERNANDEZ of Toledo, 17th c.!!!
There is also a small word la misma (?) in script.

In the Wagner reference to PIETRO HERNANDEZ there is a stamped mark of a clover in a lozenge cartouche with an 'S' over it on the rapier previously mentioned (plate 6) with this name in inscription on blade.
Similar clover devices used in Solingen (as well as Holland with the 'kleeblatt' =clover)....

more support for the complex Solingen connections (a number of Solingen smiths went to Holland) as well as strong suggestion Pedro was indeed separate from the Hernandez lineage proper , and clearly powerfully represented in Solingen context.

[fernando]

Yes, Jim.
These things are not linear indeed; let's confuse them a bit further .
According to Dudley Gingell, the letter S transposed over a T and surmounted by a G belong to Jusepe de la Hera, both younger grandson and great grandson. Amazingly in Palomar's nomina it belongs to all viejo, mozo neto and visneto, the last two with the mention 'la misma' (the same).
In any case never to Pedro Hernandez whom, according to Gingell, used a P, a F, a crucifix and to other figures, one apparently the proof mark T for Toledo.
The same Gingell assumes that Sebastian Hernandez the younger, besides his father crown over a 3, also used the wild man. The confusion increases when Gingell shows a panoply of marks for Sebastian the older, namely the 3 under two types of crown, a S under a cross and a F under a cross, with another cross on the estucheon.
In trying to figure out the meaning of the symbol 3, one finds a theory in that the symbols used by Toledo swordsmiths for their marks were not necessarily the initials of their (usualy) first names but some kind of symbols of contrast indicating the quality of the blade (Florit and Sanchez Canton in Catalogo de las armas del Instituto de Valencia de Don Juan - page 63). In fact, the symbol 3 is also used by Fernandez Ignacio, the younger, for one.

[Jim McDougall]

Good confusion Nando! and I think we need our deerstalker hats and pipes!
I had not dragged out my copy of Gyngell as it was more buried than the rest. I think what we need to remember on these references on markings is that they are primarily compendiums of marks gathered off various examples of arms collected and in museums. There is of course no structural data in most cases as far as biographical or other data, though Wagner, Mann and some others will offer some detail in texts.

I think the most important thing we have revealed here is that there were some clearly preferred or more commonly used choices with the German makers, and apparently some more comprehensive uses of punzones by the Spanish makers then thought. Most collectors like to see things neatly classified and categorized, however using the reality factor, there are probably more exceptions than rules.

The 3 might have had several explanations which will remain elusive as far as actual intent. It could of course be religious, as in Trinity....or magical as well known in the occult climate well established in Spain. To me what has been most interesting is the commonality of the joined S and T as used by both Spanish and German makers.

I am wondering if perhaps Pedro/Pietro might have been an amalgamated persona with Solingen origins in the manner of ANDREA FERARA and TOMAS DE AIALA as well as SAHAGUM in a brand sense. Possibly this is why this person does not appear in the Spanish chroniclers records.

[ulfberth]

hello all,

here are some pictures of another Pietro Hernandez Rapier, it was on sale once at Herman, as follows the discription. note this item is a twin rapier and of Italian origine, so as Fernando said tha Pietro is italian for Pedro, i wonder if that has anything to do with the name ...

kind regards
Ulfberth

Twins rapier Italian to 1600 single rapier of a pair of twins. Blade and container on the outside fully designed the inside plan, to be merged with its counterpart. The double edged sword with Ricasso, contrast in the top quarter, then with flattened Central Ridge. Signature embossed in the Groove "PIETRO HERNANDEZ". Much Spang-rapier tank for the left hand with s-shaped geschwungener, faceted pommel (older repair). On the approach of the donkey hoof broken two holes with thread, ironing on a hole. Faceted ball knob on the inside track for the Schwalbenschwanzverbindung. Gehilze with the remains of the winding handle. Length 134 cm.
Developed in the middle of the 16.Jhdts in Italy, twin rapiers were gathered together in a sheath and visually looked like a rapier. They could be separated in a duel to the surprise of the opponent to two functioning arms.
There are only 12 pairs of twins rapier and three individual pieces. Known specimens are in collections in Dresden, Vienna (New Castle), London (Wallace Collection), Turin and Rome (Collezione Odescalchi). The here offered rapier is characterized in the following ways from the pieces of his compare: it has by far the longest of all and is together with a rapier in the Dresden collection, and the Leningrad the only with a gouging in the blade. His weight is extremely easy with 848 g. Is a collection of world-famous pieces with reference data

[ulfberth]

In the book "blankwaffen II" by Heribert Seitz edition 1968 page 137 image 150 I found a Pietro Hernanes it reads :
cup hilt rapier of the Spanisch type,
the blade signed Pietro Hernanes ( as substitute ) for Pedro Hernandez