Incendiary "bestiary" or reality

[Andi]

Attached an early image from Johannes de Fontana: Bellicorum instrumentorum liber cum figuris. Venice 1420-1430. Bayerische Staatsbibliothek München, BSB Cod.icon. 242, fol. 37r. He purposes something like rocket propelled animal models? This is one of the earliest examples which may inspired later autors to use life animals as weapons.

In my opinion this topic is worth and relevant to be discussed as animals as an instrument of warfare (historic weapon) has been purposed by several historic authors. And still today animals are used for military purposes: donkeys for carrying in the alps, delphins by US Navy for seachring sea mines, dogs for searching land mines (of corse in a more defensive manner)

What we have to consider: many authors purposed either (phantastic) fantasy or visionary inventions, some of them are obviously unrealistic, the possiblity of some are rather obscure and some may have a realistic background. How could be the offender sure that the animal with a incediary device will not turn in its panic and run into the own troup arrangements. How will you direct a bird to fly into the opponents castle and not anywhere else? It's much more reliable to throw incendiary devices with a catapult or a crossbow onto the enemy.

In my eyes the proposal of using animals is rather (phantastic) fantasy with only a little chance for its historic realisation.


Supplementary amendments marked in red colour

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Andi

How could be the offender sure that the animal with a incediary device will not turn in its panic and run into the own troup arrangements.

This reminds me of a classic urban legend, The Dog and the Jeep.

A fellow from Michigan buys himself a brand-new $30,000 Jeep Grand Cherokee for Christmas. He goes down to his favorite bar and celebrates by tossing down a few too many brews with his buddies. In one of those male-bonding rituals, five of them decide to take his new vehicle for a test drive on a duck hunting expedition. They load up the Jeep with the dog, the guns, the decoys, and the beer, and head out to a nearby lake.

Now, it's the dead of winter, and of course the lake is frozen, so they need to make a hole in the ice to create a natural landing area for the ducks and decoys. It is common practice in Michigan to drive your vehicle out onto the frozen lake, and it is also common (if slightly illegal) to make a hole in the ice using dynamite. Our fellows have nothing to worry about on that score, because one member of the party works for a construction team, and happens to have brought some dynamite along. The stick has a short 20-second fuse.

The group is ready for some action. They're all set up. Their shotguns are loaded with duck pellets, and they have beer, warm clothes and a hunting dog. Still chugging down a seemingly bottomless supply of six-packs, the group considers how to safely dynamite a hole through the ice. One of these rocket scientists points out that the dynamite should explode at a location far from where they are standing. Another notes the risk of slipping on the ice when running away from a burning fuse. So they eventually settle on a plan to light the fuse and throw the dynamite out onto the ice.

There is a bit of contention over who has the best throwing arm, and eventually the owner of the Jeep wins that honor. Once that question is settled, he walks about 20 feet further out onto the ice and holds the stick of dynamite at the ready while one of his companions lights the fuse with a Zippo. As soon as he hears the fuse sizzle, he hurls it across the ice at a great velocity and runs in the other direction.

Unfortunately, a member of another species spots his master's arm motions and comes to an instinctive decision. Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned the vehicle, the beer, the guns and the dog? Yes, the dog: a trained Black Labrador, born and bred for retrieving, especially things thrown by his owner. As soon as the stick leaves his hand, the dog sprints across the ice, hell-bent on wrapping his jaws around the enticing stick-shaped object.

Five frantic fellows immediately begin hollering at the dog, trying to get him to stop chasing the dynamite. Their cries fall on deaf ears. Before you know it, the retriever is headed back to his owner, proudly carrying the stick of dynamite with the burning 20-second fuse. The group continues to yell and wave their arms while the happy dog trots towards them. In a desperate act, its master grabs his shotgun and fires at his own dog.

The gun is loaded with duck shot, and confuses the dog more than it hurts him. Bewildered, he continues towards his master, who shoots at man's best friend again. Finally comprehending that his owner has become insane, the dog runs for cover with his tail between his legs. And the nearest cover is right under the brand-new Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Boom! The dog and the Jeep are blown to bits, and sink to the bottom of the lake, leaving a large ice hole in their wake. The stranded men stand staring at the water with stupid looks on their faces, and the owner of the Jeep is left to explain the misadventure to his insurance company. Needless to say, they determined that sinking a vehicle in a lake by illegal use of explosives is not covered under their policy, and the owner is still making $400 monthly payments on his brand-new Jeep at the bottom of the lake.

[fernando]

Sorry guys,
Do i see his topic climbing in rank; from macabre to perverted ?
Is there more to come ? Time now for swapping positions ... like the animal devouring his owner's jewels ?

[Marcus den toom]

Thank you for your contribution and understanding Andi, but i think you meant fantasy instead of phantastic?

I hope i am not wrong to state that the wellfare of animals is also worth discussing, past as well as present? The soul purpose of this thread is to do acadamic research to hopefully dismiss the ideas of incendiary "bestiary", as portrait by medieval artists, and make them what they are... JUST DRAWINGS.

On a side note, most real bestiary have a satirical function. Meaning that they where meant to mock or make a fool of someone of something. The most famous one in my country is that of the Fox Reineard. A great story to read and get the feeling that animals can play a trick or two on humans as well


As Andi pointed out, even nowadays we make use of animals. Think of those dogs at the airport or indeed the trained dolphins etc.

[Jim McDougall]

Marcus, I do understand your attention to this extremely unfortunate topic and while your interest is well intended, I would respectfully suggest that it is better avoided in a broadly attended venue such as this and better held to the selectively limited group who might research such things.

There are many aspects of war and obviously the well known use of the weapons we discuss, however focus on the exploitation of animals who are in these senses innocent to designs on dealing death and mayhem is entirely repugnant to myself and others. It is quite different to train animals for warfare such as war horses, and others as bomb search or attack or guard dogs but naturally as with most things, there are categoric differences.

Please understand, I do not state this opinion in any official capacity or personal criticism as your posts are always intriguing and well informed, and certainly your intent here was well intended. I simply regret the subject matter and though I encourage discussion on the broadest possible scope of subjects, and note this is not one of them. I hope you and those reading will accept my comments constructively and in kind.

[Andi]

We should be able to discuss such historic topics freely in neutral and scientific way, without being blamed to celebrate cruelty to both animals and humans either in former or in present times. Everyone in our forum will be 100percently aware that the practice purposed by early fireworks authors will violates our present ethical standards and may also not comply to religious and ethical standards of the Middle Ages. So do I. I condemn the use of animals (and humans) for such (suicidal and assassin) practice and so far no written evidence from any historic chronicle are known to me that animals have really been used this way - but I want to be able to discuss it.
We can be proud that our ethical standards drastically developed since the 500 years when this images were published - and It's good this way!

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Andi

We should be able to discuss such historic topics freely in neutral and scientific way, without being blamed to celebrate cruelty to both animals and humans either in former or in present times. Everyone in our forum will be 100percently aware that the practice purposed by early fireworks authors will violates our present ethical standards and may also not comply to religious and ethical standards of the Middle Ages. So do I. I condemn the use of animals (and humans) for such (suicidal and assassin) practice and so far no written evidence from any historic chronicle are known to me that animals have really been used this way - but I want to be able to discuss it.
We can be proud that our ethical standards drastically developed since the 500 years when this images were published - and It's good this way!

Well understood and agreed Andi, we should indeed, however it is the nature of certain topics that the discussion often becomes distorted with emoted or distorted editorializing leading to unfortunate circumstances between participants. That being said, my comments were simply placed as my opinion concerning the subject matter as I had noted, and of course my option is to read it or not. This does seem in accord with what you have said. It is interesting, just in my perception distasteful.