African dagger. Completely stumped

blue lander · 20th June 2014, 03:43 PM

Are there any pictures of there of the "non-tourist" version of this knife? Google images doesn't come up with anything that looks similar to these.

blue lander · 1st July 2014, 05:57 PM

New one just came in today, I've attached pictures of it next to my other one. As you can see it's a bit smaller. The overall style is the same with some minor variations, and the carving on the hilt is even more careless than on my other one.

The hilt on my old one is yellowish and a little translucent, the hilt on the new one is whiter and totally opaque. Both pass the "hot needle" test. The blade on my old one is almost black, the blade on the new one is as bright and shiny as a new penny. I take this to mean that my new one was more recently made than my old one. So whatever culture that produced these must have a tradition of making them rather than some weird "one off".

Shakethetrees · 11th July 2014, 05:19 AM

I have one close to identical to the two you posted. I am in the middle of a big move and will post as soon as find it.

I have always felt it is culturally related to a flyssa- the blade shape and workmanship are too close to coincidental. But, I have been mistaken before, so....

blue lander · 21st July 2014, 08:08 PM

I'd love to see yours if you find it.

blue lander · 18th August 2014, 03:09 PM

This "Chinese sword" auction finished recently (I didn't win it), and the grip looks remarkably similar to that of these Maghreb daggers. I suppose it's just coincidence...

Oliver Pinchot · 18th August 2014, 04:22 PM

Anthropologists who study material cultures term this parallel development. Two or more cultures with similar requirements and levels of technological skill will occasionally develop a very similar object (in this case a dagger or sword grip) for the same purpose. So, in cultures where particular organic materials are readily available (wood, bone, antler, horn or ivory, for example) and stone or metal tools which can rapidly remove softer materials (files, for example) have either been invented by that culture or introduced from another through trade or war, grips with crosshatched surfaces are likely to develop independently. Thus, although the grips look alike, other factors must be considered in order to place them in the same culture. Bladeform is probably the most important distinction here.

1st July 2014, 05:57 PM	#2
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	New one just came in today, I've attached pictures of it next to my other one. As you can see it's a bit smaller. The overall style is the same with some minor variations, and the carving on the hilt is even more careless than on my other one. The hilt on my old one is yellowish and a little translucent, the hilt on the new one is whiter and totally opaque. Both pass the "hot needle" test. The blade on my old one is almost black, the blade on the new one is as bright and shiny as a new penny. I take this to mean that my new one was more recently made than my old one. So whatever culture that produced these must have a tradition of making them rather than some weird "one off". Attached Images

11th July 2014, 05:19 AM	#3
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	African dagger I have one close to identical to the two you posted. I am in the middle of a big move and will post as soon as find it. I have always felt it is culturally related to a flyssa- the blade shape and workmanship are too close to coincidental. But, I have been mistaken before, so....

18th August 2014, 03:09 PM	#5
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	This "Chinese sword" auction finished recently (I didn't win it), and the grip looks remarkably similar to that of these Maghreb daggers. I suppose it's just coincidence... Attached Images

20th June 2014, 03:43 PM	#1
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Are there any pictures of there of the "non-tourist" version of this knife? Google images doesn't come up with anything that looks similar to these.

21st July 2014, 08:08 PM	#4
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I'd love to see yours if you find it.

18th August 2014, 04:22 PM	#6
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 461	Anthropologists who study material cultures term this parallel development. Two or more cultures with similar requirements and levels of technological skill will occasionally develop a very similar object (in this case a dagger or sword grip) for the same purpose. So, in cultures where particular organic materials are readily available (wood, bone, antler, horn or ivory, for example) and stone or metal tools which can rapidly remove softer materials (files, for example) have either been invented by that culture or introduced from another through trade or war, grips with crosshatched surfaces are likely to develop independently. Thus, although the grips look alike, other factors must be considered in order to place them in the same culture. Bladeform is probably the most important distinction here.