Need Help Identifying an antique firearm

aptheo · 25th May 2014, 06:42 AM

Micheal,

Wow, I never expected to have another reply to this thread. I appreciate your time and thought, but unfortunately I am no longer in a good position to work on this project. After a year of interning with the museum, I left and took a job teaching English in China, which is where I am now. Fortunately, I still keep in contact with my friends at the museum, and I am sure they would be excited to see your sources and hear your input, as we were never able to conclusively discover what exactly the gun is. I contacted a few specialists, and I think three people independently said that it is likely Asian in origin. I can send you a link to a small article that I contributed to to with information on the story of the gun, but I don't want to be advertising the museum here in case that violates any rules of either this forum or the museum.

I can also put you in contact with someone at the museum and maybe they will consider looking into it again, although with a small staff and a team of generally inexperienced volunteers, the amount of work they can handle is limited and progress is always slow. They are a great group of people though, at least the ones I knew while I was still there.

Matchlock · 25th May 2014, 05:05 PM

Hi Aptheo,

I would much appreciate your getting me in touch with both the Bowers Museum and the few people you mentioned!

Please pass on my email to them, together with my posts.

Basically, I do not exactly share your opinion that that arquebus in question originates from Asia, and was made there. The general shape of the gun, and features like the absence of a lock mechanism, all make me tentatively assign a very early date, and a European, maybe German, Bavarian/Franconian (Nuremberg?) background to it.

Before assuming that provenance with sufficient probability, though, I definitely need [[/B] needle-sharp high-resolution images of the gun, with a minimum of 7 MB per photo.
I also need to know the bore!
The brass pan is a later addition, and of Asian type - without a provision for a cover; the dovetailing for the original wrought iron pan, fitted with a pivoted swiveling cover, is still clearly visible.

Arquebus is the correct term for this small 'long' arm, its overall length of only 33.5 in, equaling 85 cm, and making it longer than a fine and important German (Nuremberg manufactured) Landsknecht arquebus or Halbhaken, with a recoil hook, dated 1516?, preserved in the Kelvingrove Museum in Glasgow, inv.no. A. 1977.65 up, measuring only 74 cm overall (topmost three attachments):
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ingrove+museum

For example, a fine Central Italian (Tuscan) Landsknecht arquebus of about 1520-30, in my collection (see three attachments), is 82 cm long, cal. 14 mm smoothbore:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...necht+arquebus

I am certain that mentioning a museum like the Bowers in Santa Ana, OC, California will not violate any forum rules, so please allow me to link their site here:
http://www.bowers.org/
http://www.bowers.org/index.php/coll...ent-collection
http://bowers.org/index.php/collecti...on-trabuco-gun

Best,
Michael

aptheo · 26th May 2014, 09:50 AM

Michael,

If I were still at the museum, or even still in California, I would be rushing to the archive to pull the object and photo it, but unfortunately that is impossible for me now. I have sent your contact info to the museum, they should get back to you at some point. I believe they are in the middle of planning several future exhibitions as well as travelling an exhibit to China, so this is a very busy time for them. Please be patient if they are slow to respond. Let me know if there is anything more I can do for you. While I am very busy myself, I have a strong personal curiosity about this particular object. Thanks again for taking the time to help us out, I truly appreciate it.

25th May 2014, 05:05 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Aptheo, I would much appreciate your getting me in touch with both the Bowers Museum and the few people you mentioned! Please pass on my email to them, together with my posts. Basically, I do not exactly share your opinion that that arquebus in question originates from Asia, and was made there. The general shape of the gun, and features like the absence of a lock mechanism, all make me tentatively assign a very early date, and a European, maybe German, Bavarian/Franconian (Nuremberg?) background to it. Before assuming that provenance with sufficient probability, though, I definitely need [[/B] needle-sharp high-resolution images of the gun, with a minimum of 7 MB per photo. I also need to know the bore! The brass pan is a later addition, and of Asian type - without a provision for a cover; the dovetailing for the original wrought iron pan, fitted with a pivoted swiveling cover, is still clearly visible. Arquebus is the correct term for this small 'long' arm, its overall length of only 33.5 in, equaling 85 cm, and making it longer than a fine and important German (Nuremberg manufactured) Landsknecht arquebus or Halbhaken, with a recoil hook, dated 1516?, preserved in the Kelvingrove Museum in Glasgow, inv.no. A. 1977.65 up, measuring only 74 cm overall (topmost three attachments): http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ingrove+museum For example, a fine Central Italian (Tuscan) Landsknecht arquebus of about 1520-30, in my collection (see three attachments), is 82 cm long, cal. 14 mm smoothbore: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...necht+arquebus I am certain that mentioning a museum like the Bowers in Santa Ana, OC, California will not violate any forum rules, so please allow me to link their site here: http://www.bowers.org/ http://www.bowers.org/index.php/coll...ent-collection http://bowers.org/index.php/collecti...on-trabuco-gun Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 25th May 2014 at 09:40 PM.

25th May 2014, 06:42 AM	#1
aptheo Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Southern California Posts: 8	Micheal, Wow, I never expected to have another reply to this thread. I appreciate your time and thought, but unfortunately I am no longer in a good position to work on this project. After a year of interning with the museum, I left and took a job teaching English in China, which is where I am now. Fortunately, I still keep in contact with my friends at the museum, and I am sure they would be excited to see your sources and hear your input, as we were never able to conclusively discover what exactly the gun is. I contacted a few specialists, and I think three people independently said that it is likely Asian in origin. I can send you a link to a small article that I contributed to to with information on the story of the gun, but I don't want to be advertising the museum here in case that violates any rules of either this forum or the museum. I can also put you in contact with someone at the museum and maybe they will consider looking into it again, although with a small staff and a team of generally inexperienced volunteers, the amount of work they can handle is limited and progress is always slow. They are a great group of people though, at least the ones I knew while I was still there.

26th May 2014, 09:50 AM	#3
aptheo Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Southern California Posts: 8	Michael, If I were still at the museum, or even still in California, I would be rushing to the archive to pull the object and photo it, but unfortunately that is impossible for me now. I have sent your contact info to the museum, they should get back to you at some point. I believe they are in the middle of planning several future exhibitions as well as travelling an exhibit to China, so this is a very busy time for them. Please be patient if they are slow to respond. Let me know if there is anything more I can do for you. While I am very busy myself, I have a strong personal curiosity about this particular object. Thanks again for taking the time to help us out, I truly appreciate it.