Help me to appraise this Keris

isumairuchiru · 17th May 2014, 09:13 AM

Hello guys...its great that i am able to post this thread..been waiting a long time..i will posting quite a number of pics of the keris in posession right now. And last, i know nuts about keris. Please do look, appraise and advise. Thanks in Advance.

David · 17th May 2014, 07:14 PM

Hi Isumairuchiru, welcome to the forum. I am afraid we do not do monetary appraisals of this forum. I suggest you have a good look at the rules of conduct posted in the main forum and the special Keris Forum rules posted in this one to be sure you fully understand how we operate.
That said i'm afraid i don't have much good news for you about your keris. The sheath is from the Bali/Lombok region. Though possibly restorable, it is in rather poor condition and was never high quality to begin with so i'm not sure it is worth putting the time and effort into it. You've presented a number of close-ups of the "stones" so i hope it doesn't disappoint you that these are fairly valueless pastes. The fit of the blade into the sheath looks very loose so i would think this is a marriage of the blade to this pre-existing sheath.
The blade is also rather low quality, perhaps more so than the sheath. It may also be from Bali/Lombak, but it does not have any of the distinct characteristics i expect from a keris of that region so i can't be sure.
The hilt has no business being on this or any keris, as it is not a keris hilt at all. I have seen the form before, but i would have to do a little research to tell you exactly what kind of blade it belongs on.
So, it appears to me that you have an "ensemble" made up of unrelated parts put together by someone trying to find a way to clear them out of their shop. Probably not what you hoped to hear, i'm afraid. Don't be discouraged by this, as i believe many of this have less than brilliant stories to relate about acquiring our first keris.

isumairuchiru · 18th May 2014, 04:30 AM

Hi David, thanks for the comment and i am sorry mayb i used the wrong word...it should nt be appraise but idetify the keris whereby i have no idea. I hope u understand as i am not selling or other thing. Anyway thanks for great advice. I learned new things.

David · 18th May 2014, 04:47 AM

No worries. And if you have been bitten by the bug you will no doubt come across other and better keris in your searches. If you dig into our archives a bit i think you will learn much more. We have quite a few well informed contributors here.

isumairuchiru · 18th May 2014, 06:58 AM

David how you define quality made or material? As i am abit of struggling understanding the blade itself.

David · 18th May 2014, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isumairuchiru

David how you define quality made or material? As i am bait of struggling understanding the blade itself.

My first suggestion is just for you to look at a lot of keris. The differences in quality become more evident when you have something to compare. You are fortunate enough to live in a region where you should be able to find a fair amount of keris to look at in hand.That is the best way. O know of at least one good storefront for keris in Singapore and going in and handling and comparing them should be an informative experience. But simply searching for images either in our archives or through the open internet will give you a lot of photos of what different levels of keris quality look like. Understanding the subtleties of the keris form is a very long road, though quite a delightful journey IMO.

Frankly, the carving and shaping of the keris you have presented is rather crude and unskilled. This will become immediately evident once you put it side-by-side with even a medium quality example.

Jean · 18th May 2014, 10:59 PM

This type of kris with a sheath crosspiece in Balinese kekandikan style and brass pendok decorated with glass stones has been attributed to Bima (East Sumbawa) by some authors such as the late Martin Kerner. Some pieces have better blades than this one.....
Best regards

David · 19th May 2014, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

This type of kris with a sheath crosspiece in Balinese kekandikan style and brass pendok decorated with glass stones has been attributed to Bima (East Sumbawa) by some authors such as the late Martin Kerner. Some pieces have better blades than this one.....
Best regards

I can understand why Kerner might suppose this as most of the time i have seen this sheath form there is a Bima hilt involved, though usually one of those really cheap looking Bima hilts that is probably late 20th century in origin. Can't say i've ever seen a nice looking blade in such an ensemble, but if you have such an example i would love to see it.

A. G. Maisey · 19th May 2014, 07:00 AM

This sort of keris was also put together during the 1960's through to late 1980's by people in Jogja. They were then sold in Bali and Jakarta, and undoubtedly a lot of other places.

isumairuchiru · 19th May 2014, 07:44 AM

Well this is getting interesting.

Jean · 19th May 2014, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I can understand why Kerner might suppose this as most of the time i have seen this sheath form there is a Bima hilt involved, though usually one of those really cheap looking Bima hilts that is probably late 20th century in origin. Can't say i've ever seen a nice looking blade in such an ensemble, but if you have such an example i would love to see it.

Yes, there could well be a confusion between the god Bima and the city Bima indeed

. I will try to find and send a pic of such a kris which belonged to Martin. And Alan is probably right that these krisses originate from Java, I own a rather similar one but with a different design and decoration, see attached pic.
Regards

David · 19th May 2014, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

I own a rather similar one but with a different design and decoration, see attached pic.

Sorry Jean, but i am having a hard time seeing any similarity between your ensemble and Isumairuchiru's other than the fact that both have some reproussé work on the sheath stem. Since reproussé work is prevalent on pendoks throughout the region i am afraid i do not see the purpose in the comparison.

Yours looks very nice btw.

A. G. Maisey · 19th May 2014, 04:06 PM

Yes David, chalk and cheese, but I think what Jean is trying to demonstrate is that on his the scabbard was definitely made in Jogja, not only is the embossing very probably Jogja, but they've even used a Jogja motif.

isumairuchiru · 19th May 2014, 05:41 PM

This pic attchment. Is there any connection to the one Jean post or same originate.

David · 19th May 2014, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes David, chalk and cheese, but I think what Jean is trying to demonstrate is that on his the scabbard was definitely made in Jogja, not only is the embossing very probably Jogja, but they've even used a Jogja motif.

Gotcha! Thanks for that clarification Alan.

Jean · 25th May 2014, 09:49 PM

I attach the pics of 2 krisses identified as krisses Bima, and I hope that the new owners will not object to share them...

The other pieces also identified as krisses Bima in the same collection are similar to Balinese krisses but the scabbards are also fully covered with embossed metal.
Best regards

isumairuchiru · 26th May 2014, 02:40 AM

Jean ...thanks for thae picture. I never thought it would exist since i have search up and down to locate similarity of my keris...you have done a wonderful research. I believe not many ppl have seen this kind of dress.

David · 26th May 2014, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isumairuchiru

I believe not many ppl have seen this kind of dress.

I don't mean to be contrary Isumairuchiru, but this dress is fairly common. I see examples of these for sale on eBay on a fairly regular basis.

Jean · 29th May 2014, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isumairuchiru

Jean ...thanks for thae picture. I never thought it would exist since i have search up and down to locate similarity of my keris...you have done a wonderful research. I believe not many ppl have seen this kind of dress.

Hello,
There is one kris very similar to yours but fitted with a proper "Bima" hilt for sale on a Dutch site.
Best regards

isumairuchiru · 29th May 2014, 07:23 PM

Hi Jean thanks for the info, but like David said there are few similar design. This wrangka is called Kapakan mean axe in indonesia and malay. Gave some ideas how to restore my keris. Anyway how do you differentiate between malay blade, bugis blades and javanese blades?

17th May 2014, 09:13 AM	#1
isumairuchiru Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 7	Help me to appraise this Keris Hello guys...its great that i am able to post this thread..been waiting a long time..i will posting quite a number of pics of the keris in posession right now. And last, i know nuts about keris. Please do look, appraise and advise. Thanks in Advance. Attached Images

19th May 2014, 05:41 PM	#14
isumairuchiru Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 7	This pic attchment. Is there any connection to the one Jean post or same originate. Attached Images

25th May 2014, 09:49 PM	#16
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I attach the pics of 2 krisses identified as krisses Bima, and I hope that the new owners will not object to share them... The other pieces also identified as krisses Bima in the same collection are similar to Balinese krisses but the scabbards are also fully covered with embossed metal. Best regards Attached Images Last edited by Jean; 26th May 2014 at 10:16 AM.

17th May 2014, 07:14 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Hi Isumairuchiru, welcome to the forum. I am afraid we do not do monetary appraisals of this forum. I suggest you have a good look at the rules of conduct posted in the main forum and the special Keris Forum rules posted in this one to be sure you fully understand how we operate. That said i'm afraid i don't have much good news for you about your keris. The sheath is from the Bali/Lombok region. Though possibly restorable, it is in rather poor condition and was never high quality to begin with so i'm not sure it is worth putting the time and effort into it. You've presented a number of close-ups of the "stones" so i hope it doesn't disappoint you that these are fairly valueless pastes. The fit of the blade into the sheath looks very loose so i would think this is a marriage of the blade to this pre-existing sheath. The blade is also rather low quality, perhaps more so than the sheath. It may also be from Bali/Lombak, but it does not have any of the distinct characteristics i expect from a keris of that region so i can't be sure. The hilt has no business being on this or any keris, as it is not a keris hilt at all. I have seen the form before, but i would have to do a little research to tell you exactly what kind of blade it belongs on. So, it appears to me that you have an "ensemble" made up of unrelated parts put together by someone trying to find a way to clear them out of their shop. Probably not what you hoped to hear, i'm afraid. Don't be discouraged by this, as i believe many of this have less than brilliant stories to relate about acquiring our first keris.

18th May 2014, 04:30 AM	#3
isumairuchiru Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 7	Hi David, thanks for the comment and i am sorry mayb i used the wrong word...it should nt be appraise but idetify the keris whereby i have no idea. I hope u understand as i am not selling or other thing. Anyway thanks for great advice. I learned new things.

18th May 2014, 04:47 AM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	No worries. And if you have been bitten by the bug you will no doubt come across other and better keris in your searches. If you dig into our archives a bit i think you will learn much more. We have quite a few well informed contributors here.

18th May 2014, 06:58 AM	#5
isumairuchiru Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 7	David how you define quality made or material? As i am abit of struggling understanding the blade itself.

18th May 2014, 10:59 PM	#7
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	This type of kris with a sheath crosspiece in Balinese kekandikan style and brass pendok decorated with glass stones has been attributed to Bima (East Sumbawa) by some authors such as the late Martin Kerner. Some pieces have better blades than this one..... Best regards

19th May 2014, 07:00 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	This sort of keris was also put together during the 1960's through to late 1980's by people in Jogja. They were then sold in Bali and Jakarta, and undoubtedly a lot of other places.

19th May 2014, 07:44 AM	#10
isumairuchiru Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 7	Well this is getting interesting.

19th May 2014, 04:06 PM	#13
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Yes David, chalk and cheese, but I think what Jean is trying to demonstrate is that on his the scabbard was definitely made in Jogja, not only is the embossing very probably Jogja, but they've even used a Jogja motif.

26th May 2014, 02:40 AM	#17
isumairuchiru Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 7	Jean ...thanks for thae picture. I never thought it would exist since i have search up and down to locate similarity of my keris...you have done a wonderful research. I believe not many ppl have seen this kind of dress.

29th May 2014, 07:23 PM	#20
isumairuchiru Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 7	Hi Jean thanks for the info, but like David said there are few similar design. This wrangka is called Kapakan mean axe in indonesia and malay. Gave some ideas how to restore my keris. Anyway how do you differentiate between malay blade, bugis blades and javanese blades?