Vietnamese talismanic knife?

DAHenkel · 11th May 2014, 04:13 PM

Not my area of expertise but I doubt this is Burmese. I'd say more likely northeast Thai (Esarn) or southern Lao. Could also be Khmer. You sometimes see similar billed as betel knives but would also have served admirably as a utility knife for basketry or other chores. The "magic" symbols do suggest some sort of ceremonial use. Good luck with your research.

blue lander · 11th May 2014, 05:56 PM

Thanks for the tips everyone. There's a bunch of Thai and Burmese restaurants near where I work, maybe I'll bring it around once it arrives and see if anybody there can ID it.

blue lander · 15th May 2014, 08:01 PM

It arrived in the mail today, I'll upload photos when I get home.

The blade has nothing approaching an edge on any sides. So I don't think it was ever meant to do actual work. Either talismanic or a souvenir I guess.

The figure on the handle is definitely not ivory or hamster bone. It doesn't feel cool to the touch or heavy. When I tap it with my fingernail it makes a noise more like glass than ivory or bone or plastic.

I think it's cast, but I don't think it's plastic or at least not typical plastic. It's got what looks like a seam down the front but not in back, and the seam doesn't extend to the base. Only the carved figurine part. So maybe it's a flaw in the material rather than a seam.

I did the "hot needle" test and was able to press into it. The material didn't "glob" like plastic. It peeled out like wood shavings! Some of the peels stuck to the needle, so I held it over the flame to see if it'd melt. But it didn't melt, it glowed red and burned up. So I'm stumped.

Sajen · 15th May 2014, 09:05 PM

I was wondering already when I have seen the pictures if it the same material which is used in Indonesia to fake ivory handles. By this material the hot needle test also don't work and this material is also cast.
Sorry about this bad news!

Regards,
Detlef

blue lander · 15th May 2014, 09:23 PM

The hilt seems to be attached with super glue, so maybe it's a recent repair/addition to a legitimately old knife. Or maybe the whole thing is a sloppy tourist piece.

blue lander · 19th May 2014, 02:55 PM

Here's the pictures.

First up is the writing on both sides of the knife, assuming it is writing. It doesn't look like any writing system I've seen on wikipedia, but it doesn't look like random decorative patterns either. So I assume it is some sort of writing.

Next are closeups of the figure. I still don't know what it's made of. There's a hole going through its mouth. You can see what looks like a seam going down the front, but there's no seam on the back nor is there a seam on the "unshaped" part of the hilt.

blue lander · 19th May 2014, 03:36 PM

Here's a better picture of the front where the seam is. It's pretty obvious from this angle that it's a seam and not a flaw in the material. Also a picture of the back of the head.

I attached a picture of where the blade meets the bolster, it looks to be filled with a natural material like wood. It feels waxy. I think the old handle broke off and this one's a modern replacement. The face isn't even properly aligned with the "edge" of the knife.

Lastly a picture of the "tip" of the knife.

19th May 2014, 02:55 PM	#6
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Here's the pictures. First up is the writing on both sides of the knife, assuming it is writing. It doesn't look like any writing system I've seen on wikipedia, but it doesn't look like random decorative patterns either. So I assume it is some sort of writing. Next are closeups of the figure. I still don't know what it's made of. There's a hole going through its mouth. You can see what looks like a seam going down the front, but there's no seam on the back nor is there a seam on the "unshaped" part of the hilt. Attached Images

19th May 2014, 03:36 PM	#7
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Here's a better picture of the front where the seam is. It's pretty obvious from this angle that it's a seam and not a flaw in the material. Also a picture of the back of the head. I attached a picture of where the blade meets the bolster, it looks to be filled with a natural material like wood. It feels waxy. I think the old handle broke off and this one's a modern replacement. The face isn't even properly aligned with the "edge" of the knife. Lastly a picture of the "tip" of the knife. Attached Images

11th May 2014, 04:13 PM	#1
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Not my area of expertise but I doubt this is Burmese. I'd say more likely northeast Thai (Esarn) or southern Lao. Could also be Khmer. You sometimes see similar billed as betel knives but would also have served admirably as a utility knife for basketry or other chores. The "magic" symbols do suggest some sort of ceremonial use. Good luck with your research.

11th May 2014, 05:56 PM	#2
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Thanks for the tips everyone. There's a bunch of Thai and Burmese restaurants near where I work, maybe I'll bring it around once it arrives and see if anybody there can ID it.

15th May 2014, 08:01 PM	#3
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	It arrived in the mail today, I'll upload photos when I get home. The blade has nothing approaching an edge on any sides. So I don't think it was ever meant to do actual work. Either talismanic or a souvenir I guess. The figure on the handle is definitely not ivory or hamster bone. It doesn't feel cool to the touch or heavy. When I tap it with my fingernail it makes a noise more like glass than ivory or bone or plastic. I think it's cast, but I don't think it's plastic or at least not typical plastic. It's got what looks like a seam down the front but not in back, and the seam doesn't extend to the base. Only the carved figurine part. So maybe it's a flaw in the material rather than a seam. I did the "hot needle" test and was able to press into it. The material didn't "glob" like plastic. It peeled out like wood shavings! Some of the peels stuck to the needle, so I held it over the flame to see if it'd melt. But it didn't melt, it glowed red and burned up. So I'm stumped.

15th May 2014, 09:05 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	I was wondering already when I have seen the pictures if it the same material which is used in Indonesia to fake ivory handles. By this material the hot needle test also don't work and this material is also cast. Sorry about this bad news! Regards, Detlef

15th May 2014, 09:23 PM	#5
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	The hilt seems to be attached with super glue, so maybe it's a recent repair/addition to a legitimately old knife. Or maybe the whole thing is a sloppy tourist piece.