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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 534
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I added a more detailed picture of the pancover of the petronel fragment in post 6... Requiescat in pace quia novi possessor mos delebimus vos
![]() ![]() ![]() and this link to an other petronel in the castello bolognini, inventory number 326 (325 and 329 are also of the same make) http://www.lombardiabeniculturali.it...e/LO330-00958/ |
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#2 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Hi Marcus,
Thank you for linking this site! By experience I know, however, how quickly such links can be 'dead' and gone; this is why I have always pleaded our community to take their time, copy and paste the information provided in those links. So I brought the contents of your link here. ![]() ![]() For those who do not speak Italian, I have summarized the infomation provided: this is another North Italian military matchlock pertonel caliver, of usual shape and features, ca. 1570 (the author gives a rather wide span of time, ca. 1550-1590). The stock is of walnut, and the gun is in the collection of the Museo Morando Bolognini, Bologna, Italy. Alas, that photo does not depict anything more clear than the gun's outline. I guess, though, that by now, we have seen a couple of typical Italian matchlock petronels; this knowledge should enable us to identify and date them by their characteristic outlines. And Marcus: your Latin saying sounds as if you liked that petronel fragment at Hermann Historica's a lot and would have given it exactly the right kind of curation. I am positive that you, just as I, would have preserved this piece in its 'untouched', though heavily damaged condition. Well, look forward and see whether maybe another, much better preseved petronel is coming your way. In my threads, my main aim has always been to provide all the information and dating criteria of the piece in discussion that I have. Whenever I feel that a thread of mine is 'full enough' for the community to use it as a reference, and ask specific and demanding questions, I am satisfied. ![]() ![]() ![]() During my first years on the forum, Richard (Pukkabundook) was the one to bring forward questions that were so brilliant and demanding that I really loved having a hard time, giving my very best and answering them as competently and comprehensively as possible. Richard, where are you??! Please do return to my threads! ![]() Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 6th May 2014 at 10:44 AM. |
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#3 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
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After introducing the earliest forms of petronels from the 1550's to ca. 1570, I feel it is time to proceed to the latter types of ca. 1580-90. In some cases, petronels seem to have been built - or at least restocked - in around 1600. By the turn of the 16th to the 17th century though, they vanished, and in the armories as well as on the fields of war, the Spanish/Netherlandish buttstock with its characteristic triangularly flared, 'fishtail' form had taken over, both on the long and heavy large-bore muskets (overall length ca. 1.56 to 1.72 m!, bore ca. 18-20 mm, weight ca. 8-10 kg) as on the light, short and smallbore calivers (overall length ca. 1.30 m, bore ca. 14-16 mm, weight ca. 4-5 kg). The earliest types of that 'classic' type of widely flared musket buttstock seem to have originated in around 1560. The oldest known dated samples are a group of muskets in the Landszeughaus Graz, Styria, Austria, that were ordered from Nuremberg workshops, and two of them are dated 1567 and 1568 respectively on the barrels (top attachments). The preferred wood for stocks of military long guns from now on, and way through the 19th century, was common beech.
The first illustrative source of short arqubuses with flat and downcurved butts was Heller's painting of 1529, which marked the fist prestage of 'petronel' long guns. Scenes from it are attached at the beginning of this thread. Fully developed and notably longer, 'real' petronels were first illustrated in the late 1550's, as firearms of the Landsknechte (mercenaries). Also, an illustration by Franz Brun, in the Kriegsbuch (book on war) by Reinhard Graf von Solms, printed in 1559, depicts a very skilled Doppelsöldner-Landsknecht (a mercenary who had mastery in fighting with the sword and the gun, and therefore got double pay) carrying a decorated petronel, the stock obviously painted or inlaid profusely with arabesques and foliage (top attachment). This is, at the same time, the oldest illustration after 1529 to show a triangular powder flask. From around 1560 and 1566, we know illustrations by Jost Amman, showing welldressed mercenaries with long matchlock petronels, a length of thick and early (!) matchcord wound around the forestock, and a staghorn powder flask attached to the belt at the back. The form of the locks, with triangular finials, exactly corresponds to those on the Graz group of petronels from 1568 to ca. 1570 (lots of photos attached previously in this thread). Many author's photos of petronels of the 1570's are subsequently attached in this and the following posts: - two specimens in the Schweizerisches Jagdmuseum Schloss Landshut near Bern, Switzerland; the first ca. 1560's. The second probably of Suhl/Thuringia make, ca. 1590-1600[/B] , one of the latest samples ever; the lock plate with raised central section, pretending to be a more valuable wheellock mechanism at a cursory glance; the rear end of the buttstock incomplete. m Last edited by Matchlock; 6th May 2014 at 08:02 PM. |
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 534
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Thank you Michael, it would be a shame if the fragment was ruined even further. A somewhat brilliant and opportunistic thought just crossed my mind... that with this forum and all of its knowledge there could come a time where there is no longer a need (read demand) for "shiny museum quality (cough) " firearms and people will accept the real deal
![]() ![]() I also have a question when i am at it ![]() Why did this form of butstock develope? Was it because the weight would be easier to handle? |
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#5 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
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Hi Marcus,
The only explanation I can think of is what I have said in previous threads here: as stocks are concerned, the whole of the 16th and the first half of the 17th centuries were dedicated to experimenting with different forms, obviously in search of the anatomically perfect shape of the buttstock. This, however, has only been found by the 1660's, in France; it is known as the French buttstock (German: französischer Flintenkolben), and is still used almost unaltered with many English shotguns. m |
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#6 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Attachments:
a very good Nuremberg matchlock petronel, ca. 1565-70, in the Schweizerisches Landesmuseum Zürich, Switzerland. Please note the finely wrought trigger bar and the iron straps attached by large screws, completely encircling and reinforcing the delicate and fragile buttstock! This reinforcement of the buttstock is characteristic of the high-quality petronels made by Nuremberg workshops during the 1570's to ca. 1590. Author's photos. Added at the bottom is a very elegantly shaped sample of a typical North Italian matchlock petronel of ca. 1570, sold with Christie's Rome in the 1970's. The catalog, of course, is in my library but I cannot seem to find it at the moment; else I would present a better quality scan than this poor old ceroxed copy that was on my computer. Last edited by Matchlock; 6th May 2014 at 05:03 PM. |
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#7 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Attached are, from top:
two specimens scanned from Gaibi, Armi da fuoco italiane: a very fine North Italian matchlock petronel, ca. 1570, the iron parts profusely etched and gilt! Please note the wingnut of the serpentine is pierced with a Gothic trefoil ornament that originated in Italy in the 1530's but showed up again on later pieces from time to time (Armeria Reale Torino, inv.no. M.4). And another, no inv.no. given, also in Torino. In 1579, Franz Hogenberg illustrated Landsknechts from Spain with their matchlock petronels, in his engraving The Surrender of Schloss Hohenlimburg (next 3 attachments). Also by Franz Hogenberg, ca. 1595, is the colored detail from a cityscape of Rgensburg (1 att.) Preserved at the University of Edinburgh are illustrations of ca. 1580, with mercenaries and their petronels (6 att.) m Last edited by Matchlock; 6th May 2014 at 04:46 PM. |
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