Cretan Revolution Weapons 18th century

[Jim McDougall]

How regrettable that these intriguing and obviously well provenanced items from Crete brought no interest whatsoever!!!

I wanted to bump this thread in case anybody out there has interest in the weapons of Crete

First I would recommend most highly "The Arms of Greece and Her Balkan Neighbors" by Dr. Robert Elgood (2009), as these attractive arms are, like these beautiful Cretan pieces, fascinating.

On that note, also intriguing is the book "The Cretan Dagger" by Nikos Vasilatos, about these distinctive shape hilt daggers

There is so much proud history held in these arms, hopefully some comments on these might come in .

The two images are of one of the daggers and of the foukaria (=silver sheath) of another.

[kronckew]

more pics of the yataghan out of the scabbard please!

[David]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

How regrettable that these intriguing and obviously well provenanced items from Crete brought no interest whatsoever!!!

Perhaps that is because these items might be more properly placed in the European Forum…

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by David

Perhaps that is because these items might be more properly placed in the European Forum…

Really?????
Somehow (for the past 17+ years) the yataghans from the Balkans, Greece, Albania etc have been decidedly discussed here as ethnographic weapons. Have these regions now become part of Europe? I better check my latest National Geographic's!! The last I checked Crete was still in the proximity of Greece geographically .

[David]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Really?????
Somehow (for the past 17+ years) the yataghans from the Balkans, Greece, Albania etc have been decidedly discussed here as ethnographic weapons. Have these regions now become part of Europe? I better check my latest National Geographic's!! The last I checked Crete was still in the proximity of Greece geographically .

That's all well and good Jim, but it doesn't seem, as you have so astutely pointed out, that anyone is discussing these particular weapons right here right now. So i was just a simple suggestion of how it might get more response and i am having some difficulty understanding your extreme and somewhat snarky reaction to it.
BTW, the last time I checked, both Greece AND Crete were indeed considered to be part of Europe.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by David

That's all well and good Jim, but it doesn't seem, as you have so astutely pointed out, that anyone is discussing these particular weapons right here right now. So i was just a simple suggestion of how it might get more response and i am having some difficulty understanding your extreme and somewhat snarky reaction to it.
BTW, the last time I checked, both Greece AND Crete were indeed considered to be part of Europe.

Oh...I guess I was having difficulty understanding your suggestion this was more 'properly' placed on the European forum, and of course I would never issue a 'snarky' remark to you!!!....I thought you were kidding

Interesting issue though, which weapons are 'ethnographic' and which are 'European'. While Greece and Crete are of course in the modern European Union, the extremely broadened classification of 'Europe' does bring a sort of paradox to defining these fields of study. Perhaps my own perception but I had not thought of the Balkans and Greece as part of Europe, but apparently that notion should be amended.

Hopefully these notes will help direct future queries and posts on yataghans more 'properly' to the European forum, but I think the ones from Turkey should remain on the ethnographic side.

[David]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

While Greece and Crete are of course in the modern European Union, the extremely broadened classification of 'Europe' does bring a sort of paradox to defining these fields of study. Perhaps my own perception but I had not thought of the Balkans and Greece as part of Europe, but apparently that notion should be amended.

I'm not going to press this issue as i don't really care where these weapons are discussed. Again, i was simply trying to offer an explanation for why this thread may not have received more attention. However, i must point out that the inclusion of Greece into Europe is not some modern convenience of the European Union. Greece has ALWAYS been part of Europe. In fact, the name itself is of Greek origin (Europa from Greek Mythogy.The story of her abduction by Zeus in the form of a white bull was a Cretan story.), first used in the 6th century BC by Greek geographers.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by David

I'm not going to press this issue as i don't really care where these weapons are discussed. Again, i was simply trying to offer an explanation for why this thread may not have received more attention. However, i must point out that the inclusion of Greece into Europe is not some modern convenience of the European Union. Greece has ALWAYS been part of Europe. In fact, the name itself is of Greek origin (Europa from Greek Mythogy.The story of her abduction by Zeus in the form of a white bull was a Cretan story.), first used in the 6th century BC by Greek geographers.

Salaams David, Regarding Greece. Surely it ought to be considered not in respect of where it is today but where it was in the building bricks of history and regional traditions...that is in Asia ...at least partly so...and in relation to its influence and that of its major neighbors...particularly Turkey... in culture, dress, architecture, ethnographic arms and armour , style, food , ....and pretty well everything.

Quote'';Greece (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

- Independence declared from the Ottoman Empire 1 January 1822
- Recognized 3 February 1830
- Current constitution 11 June 1975
- Joined the EU 1 January 1981

Greece is strategically located at the crossroads of Europe, Western Asia, and Africa, and shares land borders with Albania to the northwest, the Republic of Macedonia and Bulgaria to the north and Turkey to the northeast. The country consists of nine geographic regions: Macedonia, Central Greece, the Peloponnese, Thessaly, Epirus, the Aegean Islands (including the Dodecanese and Cyclades), Thrace, Crete, and the Ionian Islands. The Aegean Sea lies to the east of the mainland, the Ionian Sea to the west, and the Mediterranean Sea to the south. Greece has the longest coastline on the Mediterranean Basin and the 11th longest coastline in the world at 13,676 km (8,498 mi) in length, featuring a vast number of islands (approximately 1,400, of which 227 are inhabited). Eighty percent of Greece consists of mountains, of which Mount Olympus is the highest, at 2,917 m (9,570 ft).

Modern Greece traces its roots to the civilization of Ancient Greece, beginning with the Bronze Age's Aegean Civilizations, and is considered the cradle of all Western civilization. As such, it is the birthplace of democracy, Western philosophy, the Olympic Games, Western literature and historiography, political science, major scientific and mathematical principles, and Western drama, including both tragedy and comedy. The cultural and technological achievements of Greece greatly influenced the world, with many aspects of Greek civilization being imparted to the East through Alexander the Great's campaigns, and to the West through the Roman Empire. This rich legacy is partly reflected in the 18 UNESCO World Heritage Sites located in Greece, ranking it 6th in Europe and 13th in the world.

The modern Greek state, which comprises much of the historical core of Greek civilization, was established in 1830 following the Greek War of Independence from the Ottoman Empire."Unquote.

Thus in Forum terms it would be folly to simply reclassify Greece as "European" Whilst it is technically in the west it is most definitely "Ethnographic" in essence....

I am reminded that one of the most ardent Grecian followers were the Abbasiid dynasty...!!

Common sense dictates a strategy of understanding its important role in Ethnographic terms.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by David

Perhaps that is because these items might be more properly placed in the European Forum…

There has been a more evident one ... Mister moderator, sir
... but not yet contemplated . Can you apply your influence