US Ban in Ivory - Not all bad news

spiral · 5th April 2014, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac2k

Thanks for posting the link;whereas it might "explain," the actions it does not justify them.What tribe does a Paleolithic or Neolithic point belong to ?

That's why I used the word explain, not justify.

In the UK most items belong to who owns the land its found on unless its Gold. Then the state can claim it & give you the amount they decide its worth. {usually a lot less than it would be on an open market.}

By the way, I have some mostly English Paleolithic,mesolithic & Neolithic artefacts myself.

Spiral

drac2k · 5th April 2014, 05:52 PM

As I duly noted.
Probably you don't have a big Jute or Pict lobby contesting ownership of those items. In this country we have many politically active Indian tribes who believe that anything pointy, knapped from stone belongs to them, even though it might have been there 10,000 years before they settled in the area.
Recently the treasure of a wrecked Spanish galleon, plundered from South America, found off the coast of North America, was taken from the salvage company who discovered it and returned to Spain by a U.S. court.

spiral · 5th April 2014, 08:19 PM

O dear, that sounds a silly as some of our court cases.... They don't give up anything of great value to other country's here though. {Unless theres an ulterior political motive of course.}

The one line information bulletins are fascinating, rather like newspaper headlines, I generally prefer more information before coming to a knee jerk, bandwagon jumping decision though.

Interestingly The currant land owners in the UK, were not the people who owned the land 2000 years ago even... {They were all Roman.

}

But sadly for the last few hundred years possibly a thousand in some cases the same few families still own the majority of the land in the UK.

And there not descended from the stone age tribesmen who made them...{DNA shows them {The indiginous stone age peoples}. to be related to poorest local communities here still.}

For Instance...

spiral

Andrew · 5th April 2014, 08:32 PM

No political commentary or I will close this thread, gentlemen. Thanks.

spiral · 5th April 2014, 08:52 PM

Apologies for stepping near the line without realising Andrew.

Back to the ivory laws & peoples fears...!

Spiral

CharlesS · 8th April 2014, 05:20 PM

I am sending Robert the latest news I could acquire on the new ivory bans, including CITIES and ESA language.

I am very disheartened by it all, for precisely the same reasons many of you have mentioned.

There are several blogs on the net that indicate there will be some push back on this and apparently there is an big meeting on the issues of the ban later in April with many detractors expected to be in attendance. Keep in mind we are only a small part of the collecting and antique community concerned. We ARE NOT ALONE!

I am assuming Robert will add the info onto the 'sticky' regarding the new ivory ban. The file will not attach here.

Richard G · 9th April 2014, 02:54 PM

It does get worse.
See http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?def...tions=Y&Text=Y
This seems to ban not only the import, export, buying and selling in NY State of ALL ivory (i.e including marine and mammoth ivory etc.) but also it's "distribution" which presumably means you cannot even give it away.
I hate to say it, but I think we should all prepare ourselves for the day when ownership of unlicensed ivory or other CITES type products becomes illegal, and of course licensing will be made damn near impossible. I don't expect it will be banned completely tho', the licensing officers would object to that.
Regretfully
Richard

8th April 2014, 05:20 PM	#6
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	I am sending Robert the latest news I could acquire on the new ivory bans, including CITIES and ESA language. I am very disheartened by it all, for precisely the same reasons many of you have mentioned. There are several blogs on the net that indicate there will be some push back on this and apparently there is an big meeting on the issues of the ban later in April with many detractors expected to be in attendance. Keep in mind we are only a small part of the collecting and antique community concerned. We ARE NOT ALONE! I am assuming Robert will add the info onto the 'sticky' regarding the new ivory ban. The file will not attach here. Last edited by CharlesS; 8th April 2014 at 05:31 PM.

5th April 2014, 05:52 PM	#2
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,255	As I duly noted. Probably you don't have a big Jute or Pict lobby contesting ownership of those items. In this country we have many politically active Indian tribes who believe that anything pointy, knapped from stone belongs to them, even though it might have been there 10,000 years before they settled in the area. Recently the treasure of a wrecked Spanish galleon, plundered from South America, found off the coast of North America, was taken from the salvage company who discovered it and returned to Spain by a U.S. court.

5th April 2014, 08:19 PM	#3
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	O dear, that sounds a silly as some of our court cases.... They don't give up anything of great value to other country's here though. {Unless theres an ulterior political motive of course.} The one line information bulletins are fascinating, rather like newspaper headlines, I generally prefer more information before coming to a knee jerk, bandwagon jumping decision though. Interestingly The currant land owners in the UK, were not the people who owned the land 2000 years ago even... {They were all Roman. } But sadly for the last few hundred years possibly a thousand in some cases the same few families still own the majority of the land in the UK. And there not descended from the stone age tribesmen who made them...{DNA shows them {The indiginous stone age peoples}. to be related to poorest local communities here still.} For Instance... spiral

5th April 2014, 08:32 PM	#4
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	No political commentary or I will close this thread, gentlemen. Thanks.

5th April 2014, 08:52 PM	#5
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Apologies for stepping near the line without realising Andrew. Back to the ivory laws & peoples fears...! Spiral

9th April 2014, 02:54 PM	#7
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 409	It does get worse. See http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?def...tions=Y&Text=Y This seems to ban not only the import, export, buying and selling in NY State of ALL ivory (i.e including marine and mammoth ivory etc.) but also it's "distribution" which presumably means you cannot even give it away. I hate to say it, but I think we should all prepare ourselves for the day when ownership of unlicensed ivory or other CITES type products becomes illegal, and of course licensing will be made damn near impossible. I don't expect it will be banned completely tho', the licensing officers would object to that. Regretfully Richard