Thai "katana"

ArmsAndAntiques · 27th March 2014, 01:47 AM

To kick up the dust from an old thread. I'm attaching a quote from a letter from King Mongkut to President Franklin Pierce in which he states that one of his gifts is "The sword or dagger (made of mixed steels of different colors) mounted in its case of the Kiew wood on silver richly gilt."

I can only say the King of Siam's English and penmanship is impeccable and that one would be so lucky to have friend like that...

Quite a nice sword.

DAHenkel · 27th March 2014, 04:24 PM

I think this is marvelous! The blade is clearly forged in the Peninsular tradition...given that it came from Thailand that suggests Pattani or thereabouts. The katana style blade came to be popular among Peninsular Malays in the 19th century, probably through contact with Japanese merceneries. They are call pedang jenawi traditionally although many folks today call them "pedang samurai". They're unusual and mostly of utilitarian quality. I recall there is a thread somewhere on this site that deals with them...do a little digging.

Clearly the piece is "handicraft" quality but I can assure you, experience has taught me that official gifts are often far less worthy. A very interesting piece with a most engaging story behind it...thanks for sharing!

CharlesS · 27th March 2014, 04:54 PM

Nice to see this old thread come back to life again. Quite an interesting thing.

HangPC2 · 21st October 2016, 03:59 AM

Pedang Jenawi with '' Pamor ''

mariusgmioc · 21st October 2016, 01:45 PM

With or without provenance, this is exactly what it is: a very poor quality and purely decorative attempt to copy a Japanese Katana. In other words, A FAKE. I even doubt that it can hold an edge as it is quite obvious from the photos the "edge" is about 2 mm thick...

Moreover, I doubt even the origin. While it appears to be well documented, it wouldn't be unfathomable that at a certain point in time the original sword was replaced with this pathetic attempt of a sword while the pedigree remained attached from the previous one, like Ariel suggested.

However, even if it were the original one, would the simple fact that it was presented as a gift to a president make it more valuable?! I personally don't think so. Only maybe from a historical perspective.

Dubito, ergo cogito!

PS: It wouldn't be for the first time when a museum is dead wrong about something.

Bob A · 21st October 2016, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Moreover, I doubt even the origin. While it appears to be well documented, it wouldn't be unfathomable that at a certain point in time the original sword was replaced with this pathetic attempt of a sword while the pedigree remained attached from the previous one, like Ariel suggested.

My first thought was also of a swap-out by a bent curator/collector. There are few forces more irresistible than the madness which infects collectors. P.G.Wodehouse, for one, has documented this trait in several of his more enjoyable novels.

Battara · 21st October 2016, 09:20 PM

The pamor also looks like that used by Paul Chen in his Japanese reproductions.

27th March 2014, 01:47 AM	#1
ArmsAndAntiques Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 80	To kick up the dust from an old thread. I'm attaching a quote from a letter from King Mongkut to President Franklin Pierce in which he states that one of his gifts is "The sword or dagger (made of mixed steels of different colors) mounted in its case of the Kiew wood on silver richly gilt." I can only say the King of Siam's English and penmanship is impeccable and that one would be so lucky to have friend like that... Quite a nice sword. Attached Images

21st October 2016, 01:45 PM	#5
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	With or without provenance, this is exactly what it is: a very poor quality and purely decorative attempt to copy a Japanese Katana. In other words, A FAKE. I even doubt that it can hold an edge as it is quite obvious from the photos the "edge" is about 2 mm thick... Moreover, I doubt even the origin. While it appears to be well documented, it wouldn't be unfathomable that at a certain point in time the original sword was replaced with this pathetic attempt of a sword while the pedigree remained attached from the previous one, like Ariel suggested. However, even if it were the original one, would the simple fact that it was presented as a gift to a president make it more valuable?! I personally don't think so. Only maybe from a historical perspective. Dubito, ergo cogito! PS: It wouldn't be for the first time when a museum is dead wrong about something. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 21st October 2016 at 07:35 PM.

27th March 2014, 04:24 PM	#2
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	I think this is marvelous! The blade is clearly forged in the Peninsular tradition...given that it came from Thailand that suggests Pattani or thereabouts. The katana style blade came to be popular among Peninsular Malays in the 19th century, probably through contact with Japanese merceneries. They are call pedang jenawi traditionally although many folks today call them "pedang samurai". They're unusual and mostly of utilitarian quality. I recall there is a thread somewhere on this site that deals with them...do a little digging. Clearly the piece is "handicraft" quality but I can assure you, experience has taught me that official gifts are often far less worthy. A very interesting piece with a most engaging story behind it...thanks for sharing!

27th March 2014, 04:54 PM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Nice to see this old thread come back to life again. Quite an interesting thing.

21st October 2016, 03:59 AM	#4
HangPC2 Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Malaysia Posts: 66	Pedang Jenawi with '' Pamor ''

21st October 2016, 09:20 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,270	The pamor also looks like that used by Paul Chen in his Japanese reproductions.