Incendiary device? Grenade? Or what?

M ELEY · 21st March 2014, 08:41 PM

Ahhh, a snuff container used by Blackbeard, no doubt! I think I'll just hang on to this one for a while!

BTW, Fernando, do you still have your excellent clay example you made the fuse for? She was a beaut as well. I'd love to add a bunch of different grenade types to the collection. Always fascinating to see what people come up with to hurl at each other! That paper grenade still comes to mind!! That example was on this forum, I think?

Michael, thanks again for adding this information here! I'm saving it for my files!

VANDOO · 22nd March 2014, 03:48 AM

I AM MOVING A FEW PICTURES FROM AN OLD POST ON PIRATE WEAPONS TO ADD TO THIS POST FOR REFRENCE. THERE ARE DRAWINGS OF SEVERAL TYPES OF GRENADE , FIRE BOMB DEVICES AND 3 OLD ISLAMIC CERAMIC GREANADES.

fernando · 22nd March 2014, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... BTW, Fernando, do you still have your excellent clay example you made the fuse for? She was a beaut as well...

Yes ... and i was later cherished with an early real fuse by an illustrious acquaintance; but it so delicate and fragile, that i decided to keep it in an acrylic box and let the fake stay in the grenade.
This Ingolstadt example measures 13,5 cms in diameter and weighs 2680 grs.

.

M ELEY · 22nd March 2014, 11:53 PM

Yes, that's the one! Hey, yours really is bigger than mine!

That fuse is incredible! Hmm, I wonder of which acquaintance you speak?

I love the markings on the outside of yours. Are they some sort of arsenal marking? They really highlight the piece. For that matter, on Barry's examples (thanks for adding these, Vandoo!) we see rather elaborate decorations on those 10th-12 c. grenades. Seems odd to produce such artistic expression on an item meant to be quickly destroyed? I first thought they were just to add a better gripping surface, but now I'm not so sure.

Andi · 14th October 2014, 07:30 PM

A Grenade or Fire Pot found in the Elizabethan shipwreck off the Island of Alderney of the 1580s/1590s. And a drawing of a publication cieted as "Andrew 1964". The Alderney Museum, Alderney, Guernsey

http://www.alderneywreck.com/index.p...facts/grenades

Andi · 15th October 2014, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

........... I love the markings on the outside of yours. Are they some sort of arsenal marking? They really highlight the piece. For that matter, on Barry's examples (thanks for adding these, Vandoo!) we see rather elaborate decorations on those 10th-12 c. grenades. Seems odd to produce such artistic expression on an item meant to be quickly destroyed? I first thought they were just to add a better gripping surface, but now I'm not so sure.

On his little article about the grenades at Ingolstadt Stadtmuseum on http://www.ingolstadt.de/stadtmuseum...m/r-36-004.htm the purpose of the markings are unknown to the author and director of the museum Kurt Scheuerer. The grenades were found under a roofed construction at the cities town wall which was supposed to be a workshop where the grenades were made. My theory is that the markings on the grenades represent manufacturers signs of the potters like stone cutter's marks on building stones of medieval cathedrals.

Fernando, congratulations to your nice precious... As we can not afford original piece we ordered some reconstructions of the Ingolstadt grenades from our potter which we will - hopefully - receive next month

fernando · 15th October 2014, 09:59 PM

Thank you Andi.
For general perusal, here are pictures of the place where the grenades were found, the recovery and a crosssection of one of them at the museum.

.

fernando · 15th October 2014, 10:55 PM

Manual fire devices were a vital means of combat in periods like the 16th/17th centuries. Their use was massive and a resource much greater than cannons, i guess for both economic and technologic reasons. Episodes of combats involving such devices narrated by period chroniclers are abundant. Fire pots, panelas de polvora in portuguese (meaning gunpowder pans) were thrown or dropped onto the enemy, either in naval combats as also on land, like sieges and other, with extreme efficiency. Apparently the Portuguese (also) used the skill of German specialists they had in their ranks in the making of these devices.
To give an idea of how these things were a rather significant part of the armament, here is an inventory of the Mombaça fortification, mentioned by chronicler Antonio Bocarro (1594-1642):

16 cannons (5 iron and 11 bronze)
32 muskets
113 haquebuts
1000 cannon balls (713 iron and the balance of stone)
40 small boxes of lead bullets for the shoulder arms.
238 kegs of gunpowder
578 panelas de polvora (fire pots)
138 grenades
36 fire lances
9 pikes

22nd March 2014, 03:48 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I AM MOVING A FEW PICTURES FROM AN OLD POST ON PIRATE WEAPONS TO ADD TO THIS POST FOR REFRENCE. THERE ARE DRAWINGS OF SEVERAL TYPES OF GRENADE , FIRE BOMB DEVICES AND 3 OLD ISLAMIC CERAMIC GREANADES. Attached Images

14th October 2014, 07:30 PM	#5
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	A Grenade or Fire Pot found in the Elizabethan shipwreck off the Island of Alderney of the 1580s/1590s. And a drawing of a publication cieted as "Andrew 1964". The Alderney Museum, Alderney, Guernsey http://www.alderneywreck.com/index.p...facts/grenades Attached Images Last edited by Andi; 14th October 2014 at 07:46 PM.

15th October 2014, 09:59 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you Andi. For general perusal, here are pictures of the place where the grenades were found, the recovery and a crosssection of one of them at the museum. . Attached Images

21st March 2014, 08:41 PM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,201	Ahhh, a snuff container used by Blackbeard, no doubt! I think I'll just hang on to this one for a while! BTW, Fernando, do you still have your excellent clay example you made the fuse for? She was a beaut as well. I'd love to add a bunch of different grenade types to the collection. Always fascinating to see what people come up with to hurl at each other! That paper grenade still comes to mind!! That example was on this forum, I think? Michael, thanks again for adding this information here! I'm saving it for my files!

22nd March 2014, 11:53 PM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,201	Yes, that's the one! Hey, yours really is bigger than mine! That fuse is incredible! Hmm, I wonder of which acquaintance you speak? I love the markings on the outside of yours. Are they some sort of arsenal marking? They really highlight the piece. For that matter, on Barry's examples (thanks for adding these, Vandoo!) we see rather elaborate decorations on those 10th-12 c. grenades. Seems odd to produce such artistic expression on an item meant to be quickly destroyed? I first thought they were just to add a better gripping surface, but now I'm not so sure.

15th October 2014, 10:55 PM	#8
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Manual fire devices were a vital means of combat in periods like the 16th/17th centuries. Their use was massive and a resource much greater than cannons, i guess for both economic and technologic reasons. Episodes of combats involving such devices narrated by period chroniclers are abundant. Fire pots, panelas de polvora in portuguese (meaning gunpowder pans) were thrown or dropped onto the enemy, either in naval combats as also on land, like sieges and other, with extreme efficiency. Apparently the Portuguese (also) used the skill of German specialists they had in their ranks in the making of these devices. To give an idea of how these things were a rather significant part of the armament, here is an inventory of the Mombaça fortification, mentioned by chronicler Antonio Bocarro (1594-1642): 16 cannons (5 iron and 11 bronze) 32 muskets 113 haquebuts 1000 cannon balls (713 iron and the balance of stone) 40 small boxes of lead bullets for the shoulder arms. 238 kegs of gunpowder 578 panelas de polvora (fire pots) 138 grenades 36 fire lances 9 pikes