Incendiary device? Grenade? Or what?

M ELEY · 21st March 2014, 02:34 AM

Yes you are, Nando! Yes, you are!

I'm very psyched to get a bit of good news for a change (I had a particularly bad day otherwise!). In Michael's newest thread in incendiary arrows, he posted pics of Italian glass/clay grenades that are nearly spot-on for mine! Not to say mine is Italian, but I think that it cinches it that it is indeed a bombard/incendiary. Typically, when I present a 'mystery piece', it usually ends up being something mundane (As in 'Hey, I just liked up a cool Malabar Moplah knife!!! and then, it's -'Sorry, old chap, that's a Brazilian pizza cutter!

). Nice to have found something for a change!!

Matchlock · 21st March 2014, 11:53 AM

Hi Mark,

I brought those Italian grenades over here to your thread as well; they deserved it.
The caption reads that the first two grenades are dated to ca. 1700, the third 18th c., the fourth and sixth 18th/19th c., and #6 is 18th c.

And I wish you had more often the chance to detect something really valuable!

Best,
Michael

fernando · 21st March 2014, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

...Typically, when I present a 'mystery piece', it usually ends up being something mundane (As in 'Hey, I just liked up a cool Malabar Moplah knife!!! and then, it's -'Sorry, old chap, that's a Brazilian pizza cutter!

)...

Capitão...
I hate to tell you that your 'mistery piece' is a snuff container

.
However, as i am an eclectic collector, i am ready to soften your despair and will accept that you dispatch the thing to me ... against a combined fee

M ELEY · 21st March 2014, 08:41 PM

Ahhh, a snuff container used by Blackbeard, no doubt! I think I'll just hang on to this one for a while!

BTW, Fernando, do you still have your excellent clay example you made the fuse for? She was a beaut as well. I'd love to add a bunch of different grenade types to the collection. Always fascinating to see what people come up with to hurl at each other! That paper grenade still comes to mind!! That example was on this forum, I think?

Michael, thanks again for adding this information here! I'm saving it for my files!

VANDOO · 22nd March 2014, 03:48 AM

I AM MOVING A FEW PICTURES FROM AN OLD POST ON PIRATE WEAPONS TO ADD TO THIS POST FOR REFRENCE. THERE ARE DRAWINGS OF SEVERAL TYPES OF GRENADE , FIRE BOMB DEVICES AND 3 OLD ISLAMIC CERAMIC GREANADES.

fernando · 22nd March 2014, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... BTW, Fernando, do you still have your excellent clay example you made the fuse for? She was a beaut as well...

Yes ... and i was later cherished with an early real fuse by an illustrious acquaintance; but it so delicate and fragile, that i decided to keep it in an acrylic box and let the fake stay in the grenade.
This Ingolstadt example measures 13,5 cms in diameter and weighs 2680 grs.

.

M ELEY · 22nd March 2014, 11:53 PM

Yes, that's the one! Hey, yours really is bigger than mine!

That fuse is incredible! Hmm, I wonder of which acquaintance you speak?

I love the markings on the outside of yours. Are they some sort of arsenal marking? They really highlight the piece. For that matter, on Barry's examples (thanks for adding these, Vandoo!) we see rather elaborate decorations on those 10th-12 c. grenades. Seems odd to produce such artistic expression on an item meant to be quickly destroyed? I first thought they were just to add a better gripping surface, but now I'm not so sure.

Andi · 14th October 2014, 07:30 PM

A Grenade or Fire Pot found in the Elizabethan shipwreck off the Island of Alderney of the 1580s/1590s. And a drawing of a publication cieted as "Andrew 1964". The Alderney Museum, Alderney, Guernsey

http://www.alderneywreck.com/index.p...facts/grenades

Andi · 15th October 2014, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

........... I love the markings on the outside of yours. Are they some sort of arsenal marking? They really highlight the piece. For that matter, on Barry's examples (thanks for adding these, Vandoo!) we see rather elaborate decorations on those 10th-12 c. grenades. Seems odd to produce such artistic expression on an item meant to be quickly destroyed? I first thought they were just to add a better gripping surface, but now I'm not so sure.

On his little article about the grenades at Ingolstadt Stadtmuseum on http://www.ingolstadt.de/stadtmuseum...m/r-36-004.htm the purpose of the markings are unknown to the author and director of the museum Kurt Scheuerer. The grenades were found under a roofed construction at the cities town wall which was supposed to be a workshop where the grenades were made. My theory is that the markings on the grenades represent manufacturers signs of the potters like stone cutter's marks on building stones of medieval cathedrals.

Fernando, congratulations to your nice precious... As we can not afford original piece we ordered some reconstructions of the Ingolstadt grenades from our potter which we will - hopefully - receive next month

fernando · 15th October 2014, 09:59 PM

Thank you Andi.
For general perusal, here are pictures of the place where the grenades were found, the recovery and a crosssection of one of them at the museum.

.

21st March 2014, 02:34 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Yes you are, Nando! Yes, you are! I'm very psyched to get a bit of good news for a change (I had a particularly bad day otherwise!). In Michael's newest thread in incendiary arrows, he posted pics of Italian glass/clay grenades that are nearly spot-on for mine! Not to say mine is Italian, but I think that it cinches it that it is indeed a bombard/incendiary. Typically, when I present a 'mystery piece', it usually ends up being something mundane (As in 'Hey, I just liked up a cool Malabar Moplah knife!!! and then, it's -'Sorry, old chap, that's a Brazilian pizza cutter! ). Nice to have found something for a change!! Last edited by M ELEY; 21st March 2014 at 08:40 AM.

21st March 2014, 11:53 AM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Mark, I brought those Italian grenades over here to your thread as well; they deserved it. The caption reads that the first two grenades are dated to ca. 1700, the third 18th c., the fourth and sixth 18th/19th c., and #6 is 18th c. And I wish you had more often the chance to detect something really valuable! Best, Michael Attached Images

22nd March 2014, 03:48 AM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I AM MOVING A FEW PICTURES FROM AN OLD POST ON PIRATE WEAPONS TO ADD TO THIS POST FOR REFRENCE. THERE ARE DRAWINGS OF SEVERAL TYPES OF GRENADE , FIRE BOMB DEVICES AND 3 OLD ISLAMIC CERAMIC GREANADES. Attached Images

14th October 2014, 07:30 PM	#8
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	A Grenade or Fire Pot found in the Elizabethan shipwreck off the Island of Alderney of the 1580s/1590s. And a drawing of a publication cieted as "Andrew 1964". The Alderney Museum, Alderney, Guernsey http://www.alderneywreck.com/index.p...facts/grenades Attached Images Last edited by Andi; 14th October 2014 at 07:46 PM.

15th October 2014, 09:59 PM	#10
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you Andi. For general perusal, here are pictures of the place where the grenades were found, the recovery and a crosssection of one of them at the museum. . Attached Images

21st March 2014, 08:41 PM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Ahhh, a snuff container used by Blackbeard, no doubt! I think I'll just hang on to this one for a while! BTW, Fernando, do you still have your excellent clay example you made the fuse for? She was a beaut as well. I'd love to add a bunch of different grenade types to the collection. Always fascinating to see what people come up with to hurl at each other! That paper grenade still comes to mind!! That example was on this forum, I think? Michael, thanks again for adding this information here! I'm saving it for my files!

22nd March 2014, 11:53 PM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Yes, that's the one! Hey, yours really is bigger than mine! That fuse is incredible! Hmm, I wonder of which acquaintance you speak? I love the markings on the outside of yours. Are they some sort of arsenal marking? They really highlight the piece. For that matter, on Barry's examples (thanks for adding these, Vandoo!) we see rather elaborate decorations on those 10th-12 c. grenades. Seems odd to produce such artistic expression on an item meant to be quickly destroyed? I first thought they were just to add a better gripping surface, but now I'm not so sure.