Unusual powder tester for comments

[fernando]

Very good and fast input, Marcus. Thank you for bringing in 'non pistol' style examples .
Certainly PittRivers and the 'ambitious' seller of the other example are claiming wrong dating.
... and the sexy 17th "style" four legged one might even be a 20th century replica ... or contemporary imagination .
I wonder if both PittRivers and the Commercial site are making some confusion with the touchole issue ... or is it me ? One thing is the little 'hole' in the base where you submit the ignition and the other thing is the 'deposit' where you fill the powder to be tested ... sorry the funny lexicon. It seems as they are calling touchole the late part.
Obviously i might be wrong; my knowledge is very superficial. Correct me if i am wrong .


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[Marcus den toom]

Hi Fernando,

I must appologize for the lack of other pictures which gives also a view of the other side of the powder testers (with touch hole).
The bronze 4 legged one and the third one from post #7 where both made by the collector Keith Coulter, who according to the auction website who sold these items before, made these powder testers for his own collection and not for fraudulent purposes. Thus these are modern replicas, most likely using multiple styles? (confusing )

Here are the pictures from the touch hole side, notice the second powder tester of this post. It has a spring next to the powder 'deposit', i wonder what this might do.

[Matchlock]

With these on our site we have, I guess, a full spectrum of powder testers, starting with an early instance of the second half of the 17th c. (top attachments), featuring an English model signed by Woolley, ca. 1780 (made of brass), and including a modern copy (the one on the percussion system).

m

[Matchlock]

Two more, the one on top Spanish, dated 1865.

[Matchlock]

A Dutch model with ivory grip, 2nd half 17th c., a mid-18th c. specimen and two of late 18th c. date, the second employing a Spanish miquelet lock mechanism.

m

[Marcus den toom]

I remembered this powder tester from an auction (probus auction 21). It is dated 1701 and "Richter Koln". I hope i don't have to censor the sexual content, since the overall picture does show a good portret of that periods style.
The auction labeled it as barock, but i would also say some renaissance content ?
It is 23 cm long.

[Matchlock]

Great find, Marcus,

The Baroque style evolved straight out of the Renaissance, retaining many aspects of the former époque.

m

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

I remembered this powder tester from an auction (probus auction 21). It is dated 1701 and "Richter Koln". I hope i don't have to censor the sexual content, since the overall picture does show a good portret of that periods style. ..

That is amazing !!!
Michl also showed us one with the same attitude in his post #13.
Certainly a fashion ... maybe with a meaning .

Oh, only now i notice that Marcus's example is more (humanly) complete than that one posted by Michl

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Two more, the one on top Spanish, dated 1865.

Say Michl, how long ago has this auction taken place ?
I am trying to figure out whether my example, just acquired, cost me a good or a bad price.

[Matchlock]

Of course, Sir Nando,


Right at your command and service:
here are the hammer prices (plus 23 per cent commission for the buyer, minus 23 per cent for the consigner) of Hermann Historica's Munich back till 2012 (descending). As they prove, prices greatly vary.
Please forgive me for not finding exactly the items posted before as I picked them up from the web at random.


Best,
Michl

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Of course, Sir Nando,
Right at your command and service: ...

Thank you for the pictures and for the reverence, Sir Miguel .
... although none of them has the date the auction took place, which was my humble request; you know, trying to update the prices ... inflation and all .

[Marcus den toom]

Originally Posted by fernando

Say Michl, how long ago has this auction taken place ?
I am trying to figure out whether my example, just acquired, cost me a good or a bad price.

I think we should put your example somewhere in the €350-450,- range Fernando, though not very old, all of them seem very collectible. As always, the price differs with the quality, rarity, maker, age, provenance, etc.

The handle on your powder tester was amde in the same way and from the same material as my indoor door handles. The house was made in 1920's.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

The handle on your powder tester was made in the same way and from the same material as my indoor door handles. The house was made in 1920's.

Thank you Marcus, but we better not express values under discussion terms; only (non posted) considerations on prices accidently shown in Web images .

You are not assuming that my powder tester is as new as 1920
I would be most surprised that you door handles are of horn; may i call it insolit ?!
But if you only refer to its shape and apparent method i don't need to remind you that such design may be centuries old .

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

With these on our site we have, I guess, a full spectrum of powder testers, starting with an early instance of the second half of the 17th c. (top attachments), featuring an English model signed by Woolley, ca. 1780 (made of brass), and including a modern copy (the one on the percussion system).

m

Fantabulous Michl,
Great and varied examples.
I don't want to jump to conclusions as i lack the experience to perceive that determined examples from different countries follow the same fashion; otherwise i would say that my specimen is Spanish, when comparing it with the one made by Lucas Ortiz de Zarate ... although i die for mine not being from the 18th century, even if by the end ... horn grip and all

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

With these on our site we have, I guess, a full spectrum of powder testers, starting with an early instance of the second half of the 17th c....

Let me then widen the spectrum ... back to the dawn of powder testing.
Images drawn for a rather interesting article written by Dr. H. G. Muller:
http://www.reenactor.ru/ARH/PDF/Muller_H._G.pdf
I am trying to find the author's email address, to query him on my example but, so far, had no result. Anyone has an idea how to get it ?

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[fernando]

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

Hi Fernando,

I must appologize for the lack of other pictures which gives also a view of the other side of the powder testers (with touch hole)...

Oh no Marcus, all was fine enough from your side.
The touchole confusion was on the sites descriptions, not on the 'missing' pictures.

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

...The bronze 4 legged one and the third one from post #7 where both made by the collector Keith Coulter, who according to the auction website who sold these items before, made these powder testers for his own collection and not for fraudulent purposes. Thus these are modern replicas, most likely using multiple styles? (confusing )...

After you posted the links, i went browsing on the sources of those examples ... and also on the Keith Coulter issue. That's why i guessed on the fantasy of the peculiar example.

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

...It has a spring next to the powder 'deposit', i wonder what this might do. ...

If you read the description, it says "with touchole cover". Perhaps that is a sort of dust cover ... or for avoiding the priming powder to fall off (?). The spring is there to secure the cover ... and maybe to turn aside to open.

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by fernando

I wonder if both PittRivers and the Commercial site are making some confusion with the touchole issue ... or is it me ? One thing is the little 'hole' in the base where you submit the ignition and the other thing is the 'deposit' where you fill the powder to be tested ... sorry the funny lexicon. It seems as they are calling touchole the late part.
.

Hi Nando,


Not being in the least familiar with these objects, I have been wondering ever since you asked this question in post #9.

I guess you must be right: the small external trough marked by you must have been an igniting pan for priming powder, probably lit by a glowing pinewood chip always kept ready in any average home (German: Kienspan). This then lead to the explosion of the testing powder.


Best,
m

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

... I guess you must be right: the small external trough marked by you must have been an igniting pan for priming powder, probably lit by a glowing pinewood chip ...

Sure thing Michl,
... Reason why i found this primitive system example more appealing that the mostly seen ones operated by 'mechanical' striking.