Silver Pinned Khanjar

A.alnakkas · 26th February 2014, 05:39 PM

Why is there an assumption that tight placed pins are only found on horn items? there are different examples with wood hilts.

the technique is old and done on various types, the recent pins are further apart but it seems that the older generation had a way of pinning things without cracking them too much :-)

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 26th February 2014, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Why is there an assumption that tight placed pins are only found on horn items? there are different examples with wood hilts.

the technique is old and done on various types, the recent pins are further apart but it seems that the older generation had a way of pinning things without cracking them too much :-)

Salaams A.alnakkas~Possibly because Rhino hilts are usually very closely pinned. It is an indicator, though, I see no assumption on this thread of this... except loosely in trying to ID the material...I am looking at the hardwoods available in Oman and it may be Garrat...It's not Atom nor Meez.(these last three being used for camel sticks normally...It's probably not the expensive Sandalwood...I look to a cheaper wooden provenance..Ghaff or Sider? The latest pictures certainly appear to be wood...as the item is cleaned up. Actually the pins have quite big heads so in fact they are not so close together.

Salaams archer... Quite a puzzle... I see so few of these I had to look very hard at the construction... This was a working dagger on the waist of a less wealthy individual but non the less it is a very nice example and as I say none exist today ...even in museums... This is a rare example ... nice!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

spiral · 26th February 2014, 09:46 PM

Its far too open grained to be sandlewood.

Historically Oman has imported good quality timber from India & I would guess Africa as well, so may not necessarily be local. {After all none of the rhino horn or ivory is/was either.}

Spiral

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 27th February 2014, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

Its far too open grained to be sandlewood.

Historically Oman has imported good quality timber from India & I would guess Africa as well, so may not necessarily be local. {After all none of the rhino horn or ivory is/was either.}

Spiral

Salaams Spiral...Ya I dont disagree with any of that so I'm looking at local timber but as you say maybe its from outside ... Anyway it's wood.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

A.alnakkas · 27th February 2014, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams A.alnakkas~Possibly because Rhino hilts are usually very closely pinned. It is an indicator, though, I see no assumption on this thread of this... except loosely in trying to ID the material...I am looking at the hardwoods available in Oman and it may be Garrat...It's not Atom nor Meez.(these last three being used for camel sticks normally...It's probably not the expensive Sandalwood...I look to a cheaper wooden provenance..Ghaff or Sider? The latest pictures certainly appear to be wood...as the item is cleaned up. Actually the pins have quite big heads so in fact they are not so close together.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Here is where I thought there are assumptions:

Quote:

This hilt does not absorb light but is quite close pinned..There are no splits...I think it is a horn derivative ... usually bovine...

It seems assumptive but I could be overreading into your comment. Anyways, I have one with a wooden hilt and tight pinning. Will post pictures of it later on.

archer · 28th February 2014, 12:39 AM

Hi, I feel you all have brought forth some very good reasoning. I found this today http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=5017 said to be Mid to Late 19thC Omani. Please note the sheath is basically the same.
I was starting to think I'd seen the same deceitful wood in some Moroccan Koummya's. The pins have indeed been flatted a bit. So, is the age range about right? Thank you all again your incite is appreciated. Steve
Correction 19th C.

A.alnakkas · 28th February 2014, 12:53 AM

The one from Artzi's website is likely a hybrid. Not necessarily put together but the hilt is Yemeni while the scabbard is Omani. The blade is the nicest part of that item.. the hilt is good rhino.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 28th February 2014, 06:13 AM

Salaams the dagger is certainly not Omani as stated and I am looking at the scabbard with the possibility of Salalah as the mark... I have the entire thing under review and hopefully I can get the correct angle on this style...The hilt looks identical in material...Have you any idea where it was obtained?

archer · 28th February 2014, 08:16 PM

This dagger weighs 6oz.s, with the sheath it is 12 oz.s. Blade length 7.25",
overall it is 11.5 inches. My limited experience says this is very light. Looking forward to more information. My gut guess, says the blade and sheath could be 1920s-30s The hilt though much cleaner now is likely more recent. The lack of any metal reinforcement at the throat probably accounts for the wear and tear seen. The other dagger looks Yemeni to me too. I will ask the seller how mine was acquired. Steve

28th February 2014, 12:39 AM	#6
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	A Bit More Info Hi, I feel you all have brought forth some very good reasoning. I found this today http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=5017 said to be Mid to Late 19thC Omani. Please note the sheath is basically the same. I was starting to think I'd seen the same deceitful wood in some Moroccan Koummya's. The pins have indeed been flatted a bit. So, is the age range about right? Thank you all again your incite is appreciated. Steve Correction 19th C. Attached Images Last edited by archer; 28th February 2014 at 02:17 AM.

28th February 2014, 08:16 PM	#9
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	A Few Statistics This dagger weighs 6oz.s, with the sheath it is 12 oz.s. Blade length 7.25", overall it is 11.5 inches. My limited experience says this is very light. Looking forward to more information. My gut guess, says the blade and sheath could be 1920s-30s The hilt though much cleaner now is likely more recent. The lack of any metal reinforcement at the throat probably accounts for the wear and tear seen. The other dagger looks Yemeni to me too. I will ask the seller how mine was acquired. Steve Attached Images

26th February 2014, 05:39 PM	#1
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Why is there an assumption that tight placed pins are only found on horn items? there are different examples with wood hilts. the technique is old and done on various types, the recent pins are further apart but it seems that the older generation had a way of pinning things without cracking them too much :-)

26th February 2014, 09:46 PM	#3
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Its far too open grained to be sandlewood. Historically Oman has imported good quality timber from India & I would guess Africa as well, so may not necessarily be local. {After all none of the rhino horn or ivory is/was either.} Spiral

28th February 2014, 12:53 AM	#7
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	The one from Artzi's website is likely a hybrid. Not necessarily put together but the hilt is Yemeni while the scabbard is Omani. The blade is the nicest part of that item.. the hilt is good rhino.

28th February 2014, 06:13 AM	#8
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams the dagger is certainly not Omani as stated and I am looking at the scabbard with the possibility of Salalah as the mark... I have the entire thing under review and hopefully I can get the correct angle on this style...The hilt looks identical in material...Have you any idea where it was obtained?