Moro kris or sundang?

[kai]

Hello Dave,

It seems to me that this blade looks like it has a lot more malay influence to it than moro.

I agree that this blade has a few odd features like the pretty feeble gangya.

However, the scrollwork at the base of the blade does look Moro rather than Malay to me. Also the hilt and, especially, the grip braiding seems textbook Moro to me.

even the pamor looks pretty much Indonesian..........

I'd suggest that this is probably because we're not used to see this kind of surface manipulated pamor from Moro blades; examples are rare, indeed.

BTW, Malay sundang don't show this kind of pamor construction any more often either...

Regards,
Kai

[DaveS]

Kai: Yes, the scrollwork does look more moro than malay, but the pamor just doesn't look moro to me at all. I think this is a definite hybrid. Not surprising, given the close proximity of these two groups..........Dave.

[kai]

Hello Dave,

Yes, the scrollwork does look more moro than malay, but the pamor just doesn't look moro to me at all. I think this is a definite hybrid. Not surprising, given the close proximity of these two groups.

While I have seen many Moro kris blades in Malay fittings, I've yet to see a convincing case of a Malay blade in Moro dress. Sure, one might expect such piece given the close commercial and cultural ties between these groups, but the rarity of any examples is notable.

As stated above, my main point is that Malay sundang also don't show this controlled surface-manipulated pamor any more often than Moro kris; even if we move into keris of that region, this is not a type of pamor that is regularly utilized. Thus, I believe this makes it a bit tough to argue that this blade was influenced by Malay sundang or even that it must be a kind of hybrid.

Sure, the expertise originally came out of Indonesia; this is especially compelling for the twistcore pamor. Still, these are Moro twistcore blades (not hybrids, etc.). I'd posit the same for blades with this much rarer pamor type. What do you think of the example I just attached above, Dave?

Regards,
Kai

[DaveS]

Kai: With these types of blades it just seems to be more confusing with each one that comes up. I'll be the first to admit that with these so-called crossovers I just don't know for sure, and I don't think that any of us can be completely sure. I think there is not enough examples to study unfortunately. That Ashoka Arts kris is a real knockout!!!!!!. I would love to have it. That pamor is totally different than anything I've seen. Seems like every time I go on his site, I seem to miss ones like this.......Dave.