Persian sword?

[Jim McDougall]

You are most welcome Hara! and this is a most interesting sabre, as is your thought that it might be Afghan.
The parrot hilt, virtually identical but with variations in the floral motif, and with similar curled back knuckleguard are known from Gujerat (Pant, 1980, CXX) and classified as 17th century (probably later). These style hilts however had pretty much the standard tulwar hilt elements in their quillons and langet.

This one is quite unusual in apparently corresponding to European hilt style with the quillon terminal disc and the langet which both seem to reflect elements of the British M1796 light cavalry sabres. During the 19th century there was a great deal of hybridization of British and Indian swords.
Possibly this example may have been one of these. I have seen tulwar hilts with British blades (quite common) and other combinations.

As Ariel has noted, these Persian traded blades (many spuriously associated with Assad Adullah the famed maker) were indeed often duplicated in Ataghi (in Chechnya) and I believe other some other Caucasian locations. The channeled blade and the 'key hole' like device in the blade resembles some of these blades of c 1830s.

I think a very nice example, and a good example of these type blades in unusual variant form probably of around mid to late 19th century. I would suspect possibly some interesting connections to the British Raj in India.

Best regards,
Jim

[AJ1356]

It is interesting but not Persian, at first look I thought Indian. As I kept looking more and more, and try to make sense of the rubishy inscription, I think it might have been built to try and trick someone into thinking this is a Persian blade by Assadullah. Since there are parts of the inscription that could be mistaken as that. Interesting non the less. Could it be an older movie prop? Just saying that since I was watching Sinbad the Sailor today and they had lots of decent looking prop shamshirs and what not.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by AJ1356

It is interesting but not Persian, at first look I thought Indian. As I kept looking more and more, and try to make sense of the rubishy inscription, I think it might have been built to try and trick someone into thinking this is a Persian blade by Assadullah. Since there are parts of the inscription that could be mistaken as that. Interesting non the less. Could it be an older movie prop? Just saying that since I was watching Sinbad the Sailor today and they had lots of decent looking prop shamshirs and what not.

Hi AJ,
It would appear we crossed posts as I had just made some notes on this sabre in the previous post .
I think it is important to note that these trade blades were actually well made blades, and not intended necessarily to fool anyone. The Persian blades of this general form were also produced in Chechnya in the Caucusus, and the cartouches and allusions to Assad Allah were more to signify imbued quality.
A great reference is "The Persian Shamshir and the Signature of Assad Allah by Oliver Pinchot, "Arms Collector", Vol 40, #1, Feb 2002.

I assure you this is not a movie prop from Sinbad movies!! LOL .
but those movies are indeed fun to watch. Gotta love those 'scimitars'!!!

Best regards,
Jim

[RSWORD]

In the last picture, if you look closely you can see that the blade is pattern welded and not wootz. And it seems to be a rather bold pattern weld. Would it be possible to get some good pictures of the pattern on the blade? From what I can see in that picture, the pattern weld is much more typical to India than the patterned blades you would expect from the Caucasus and not wootz as you would expect from a Persian trade blade.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by RSWORD

In the last picture, if you look closely you can see that the blade is pattern welded and not wootz. And it seems to be a rather bold pattern weld. Would it be possible to get some good pictures of the pattern on the blade? From what I can see in that picture, the pattern weld is much more typical to India than the patterned blades you would expect from the Caucasus and not wootz as you would expect from a Persian trade blade.

Excellent and astute observation Rick! I had not noticed that, but you are of course correct and that does led more credence to Lofty's powerfully direct note. In my usual optimism I had been more drawn to the potential of this being one of those Persian trade blades or possibly as Ariel noted, a Caucasian copy.
I had also not noticed that the tip of the blade is quite more distorted in shape than these type of Persian trade blades and the brass cartouches and devices are not only far more excessive in grouping but not like the Persian examples.
With Artzi's much respected opinion and concisely well placed note, along with the others I must agree that this is far more likely to be a product of India from 20th century.
I did enjoy my wistful trip into the British Raj though with my ideas inspired by this attractive example, as well as the images of the Sinbad movies AJ!

Even if this is 20th century product, it still seems quite well made and of more vintage than the kind of things out of Rajasthan in more recent years.

All best regards,
Jim

[spiral]

Blade looks very clumsy & I would guess fairly heavy?

spiral

[Richard G]

I don't want to come across as a negative old fart, but wouldn't discount a recent Chinese fake.
Sorry
Richard

[Oriental-Arms]

In my modest opinion, I agree with Alnakkas. Very late 20C. blade from India. The pattern welded steel is very similar to so many “Damascus” blades from India flooding the market.