Two Interesting Moroccan Koummya Daggers

[spiral]

Lovely specimens Charles!

Any history with them?

I don't think the white hanger on the first is original though? it just doesn't look right... adds to completeness though...

With the same one. The ferrule seems not to fully match the hilt? is it slightly proud at the rear? {on the right hand side in your photo.} or is that an optical illusion? Also The rear pin hole in same ferrule seems to be missing the pin? Could it be a rework or marriage perhaps? What's your take on this?

Either way a nice piece with a beautifully forged & ground blade. & has as you say an artistic flair in design.

The claw type is truly delicious though! I think Patton picked up a similar piece when he was in North Africa? Ive never had the delight of handling one of these claw pieces.... I like them in photos though!

Quality all the way through.

Spiral

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by spiral

Lovely specimens Charles!

Any history with them?

I don't think the white hanger on the first is original though? it just doesn't look right... adds to completeness though...

With the same one. The ferrule seems not to fully match the hilt? is it slightly proud at the rear? {on the right hand side in your photo.} or is that an optical illusion? Also The rear pin hole in same ferrule seems to be missing the pin? Could it be a rework or marriage perhaps? What's your take on this?

Either way a nice piece with a beautifully forged & ground blade. & has as you say an artistic flair in design.

The claw type is truly delicious though! I think Patton picked up a similar piece when he was in North Africa? Ive never had the delight of handling one of these claw pieces.... I like them in photos though!

Quality all the way through.

Spiral

Thanks for your comments.

Spiral, you are 100% correct regarding the baldric....I added it just for looks. I do not have the proper baldric rings yet...that would change everything.

The ferrule and rest are all 'born together'. There may be something in the pic that is throwing you off.

[spiral]

Ahh thank you Charles.

The photo or my eyes!

Fantastic pair all round then!

spiral

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

First; Please press into this http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/koummya/

Then~ a small but important resource exists on http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=81117

Salaams all Note to Library; There is here at # 1 a certain degree of craftsmanship, thus, perhaps the tag Jewish Craftsmanship applies. In the second example the design with the pointed star of David is displayed twice. In the first example the balance and artistic definition are very high...though I would attribute both to Jewish workshops.

I was looking at Koummya generally and discovered a good and plentiful web back up from which I have added the pictures below to aid research; Thus both designs are identified.

The single black horizontal dagger is described as 20th Century

Morocco - Ait Ouaouzghit region, Southwest Atlas

Steel, silver, ebony wood

Full length: 41 cm, blade length: 23, 5 cm...

The interesting postcard is circa 1900 from Forum library Oran, Algeria..

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[CharlesS]

Ibrahim,

Thanks for your images. The most valuable one is the smallest identifying hilt forms....any way to blow that up and re-submit??

The example to the left(since moved to the right) is of tourist quality as are most in the dagger pile pic.

The bottom pic is a lovely piece of quality, and an early to mid 20th century date on it would not surprise me at all.

My impression is that koummyas of this more common form are a 20th century phenomenon altogether, but with huge differences in quality. I think we would be generally correct to say the older ones are of higher quality.

That said, I have seen some lovely new examples coming out of Morocco currently and sold as new, though they tend to be oversized, and lack the elegance and charm of the older ones.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Ibrahim,

Thanks for your images. The most valuable one is the smallest identifying hilt forms....any way to blow that up and re-submit??

It's a pity the source wasn't given before. You'll need to translate from the French but the excellent page this was taken from is: http://blade.japet.com/koummya.htm

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Iain

It's a pity the source wasn't given before. You'll need to translate from the French but the excellent page this was taken from is: http://blade.japet.com/koummya.htm

Salaams Iain, That wasn't my source that's why I didn't refer it as such. I just Googled it. I will work your reference into the thread.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Ibrahim,

Thanks for your images. The most valuable one is the smallest identifying hilt forms....any way to blow that up and re-submit??

The example to the left is of tourist quality as are most in the dagger pile pic.

The bottom pic is a lovely piece of quality, and an early to mid 20th century date on it would not surprise me at all.

My impression is that koummyas of this more common form are a 20th century phenomenon altogether, but with huge differences in quality. I think we would be generally correct to say the older ones are of higher quality.

That said, I have seen some lovely new examples coming out of Morocco currently and sold as new, though they tend to be oversized, and lack the elegance and charm of the older ones.

Salaams CharlesS~ No need since the original page is now identified as http://blade.japet.com/koummya.htm. A highly recommended view is urged ... It is in easy to comprehend French. I will post the relevant pictures for research as under;

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.