Dating Earliest Barrels: the Importance of the Position of the Touch Hole

[Matchlock]

That barrel of yours indeed slipped off my memory, 'Nando,


The way how similar those two items are is really amazing.

I don't know why the tillers are missing because they of course acted as stocks.


m

[Marcus den toom]

I just love this thread, there are so many haquebuts and information i didn't find on the internet... and believe me i looked high and low for them

Do you also know (or can you give an estimate) about how many haquebuts have survived? They are not easily found, but if you see how many the museum in Graz has...
And how big was there impact on the battlefield (where there many of them employed)?

The English longbow was in some extend capable of penetrating through armour, so where the haquebuts less common in England? (as far as i remember, and i am no expert so correct me if i am wrong about the long bow, but they where easier to make than haquebuts but required a bit more training to use though).

Just a few questions i came up with

[Matchlock]

Hi Marcus,


It's really hard to tell how many Gothic haquebuts, that is from the period before ca. 1510, actually survived; Graz mostly holds haquebuts from the 1520's to the 1580's but only very few Late-Gothic barrels that were restocked in the late 17th c. and are now parts of much younger wall guns.

I would say that no more than about 500 Gothic haquebut barrels have survived altogether, only very few of them retaining their original stocks.

Haquebuts (ganze Haken) and wall guns (Doppel- und doppelte Doppelhaken) were normally not used on battlegrounds, at least not on the side of the aggressor. Basically, they belonged to the lighter defense artillery of fortified places such as fortresses and towns where they were mostly kept loaded and primed in arsenals and on watchtowers. Thus, iron and bronze haquebut barrels alike are often excavated near old town walls, where they were fired from the loopholes - and sometimes happened to fall all the way down.

I am not competent enough to actually compare a haquebut to a longbow, I'm afraid.


Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

The hexagonal barrel with top flat, not sighted, the breech reinforced, the muzzle with large plate-shaped reinforcement, the surfaces not polished, retaining traces of red lead minium coating; small, rectangular hook at about one third of the overall length; the touch hole at the rear of the top flat. Original long and faceted, slightly downcurved, pointed oval tiller stock, possibly beechwood, put into the socket of the barrel.
Overall length 168 cm (ganzer Haken), bore 21 mm, 11.5 kg.
Exhibited in the Fortress of Coburg, Northern Bavaria, inv.-no IV.D.1.

m

[Matchlock]

At the Fortress Coburg in Northern Bavaria, you can study heavy wall pieces from the mid-15th to the early 18th century, most of them re-using Gothic barrels.


1. For the one on top cf. previous post.

2. Cast-bronze barrel, ca. 1500-10, first decade 16th c., bearing the Gothic minuscule p mark of Sebald II Pehaim, red-copper founder (Rotgießer) in Nuremberg; five-staged barrel with three sided and two round forward sections, including a raided, short and round muzzle section with integrally cast full-length foresight, the block rear sight and right-hand side pan on the barrel base section. Stepped, rectagular hook.
Beechwood full stock and matchlock of ca. 1640-45, high time of the Thirty Years War.
Overall length 150 cm, bore 22 mm, 16 kg (Doppelhaken).

3. Overall made in ca. 1620, Early Thirty Years War, in Suhl/Thuringia, the wrought-iron, sighted barrel octagonal to round, with round, reinforced muzzle and rectangular hook serrated at the rear, trunnions; combined wheellock and snap-matchlock ignition, beechwood full stock.
This heavy piece (Doppelhaken-Bockbüchse) was mounted on a wheeled carriage (Bocklafette), as shown below.
The close-ups are from the exact firing replica made by Armin König.
Overall length 228 cm, bore 27 mm, 19 kg.

4. Wrought-iron three-staged, sighted barrel, ca. 1500-10, octagonal throughout changing flats at about the rear fourth of its length, and back at almost mid-section; short, swamped, octagonal muzzle, long rectangular hook. Beechwood full stock and flintlock with rounded banana-shaped lock plate, all ca. 1700-30.
Overall length 175.5 cm, bore 25 mm, 23 kg.


m

[Matchlock]

Octagonal barrel with rear socket, retaining much of its original red lead minium paint, large funnel-shaped touch hole on top ridge, short, heavily swamped muzzle section, no sights. The slightly downcurved, blackened tiller stock ca. 2nd half to late 15th c., widening towards its rear end, painted in white with an illegible sign, the Gothic miniscule h and a cross.
Barrel length 89 cm, bore 24 mm.
In the reserve collection of the Berlin Arsenal (Zeughaus) in the Deutsches Historisches Museum.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

I just love this thread, there are so many haquebuts and information i didn't find on the internet... and believe me i looked high and low for them

Do you also know (or can you give an estimate) about how many haquebuts have survived? They are not easily found, but if you see how many the museum in Graz has...
And how big was there impact on the battlefield (where there many of them employed)?

The English longbow was in some extend capable of penetrating through armour, so where the haquebuts less common in England? (as far as i remember, and i am no expert so correct me if i am wrong about the long bow, but they where easier to make than haquebuts but required a bit more training to use though).

Just a few questions i came up with

Hi Marcus,
We can read in diverse material that the longbow, appeared in England early fourteenth century, was a formidable weapon. It superceeded firearms in effectiveness and accuracy, although ir needed exhaustive training. You would need to have the practice of a veteran to be a reliable element in battle formation. In the battle of Aljubarrota (August 1385), experienced English mercenaries had a decisive role in the event. On the other hand, firearms could be used equally by the strong and the weak and with far less training.
Contemporary crossbows had an even more powerful effect but their reloading ratio has been always a handicap ... maybe less for hunting than for fighting.
I would put it that, during far more than a century, bows were more effective than firearms ... haquebuts and all.

[Matchlock]

This is in the private collection of a friend of mine.

Octagonal, slightly tapering towards the muzzle, this barrel is remarkable for having an earlier touch hole nailed up and a new one, with a surrounding funnel shaped trough, pierced on what now seems to be the top flat.
Originally, this item, too, would have been fixed by two iron bands to a wooden stock. There is a high probability why there are still so many similar early barrels around. My theory is that most of them were part of multibarrel organs or devices:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t+iron+barrels

Attached please find an illustration by Konrad Kyeser, Eichstätt, Bavaria, from his work Bellifortis (The Strong One at War), 1405, depicting such a rotating multibarrel device, and two samples of the earliest shape of a rectangularly curved igniting iron:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...igniting+irons


m

[Matchlock]

The barrel of a heavy Tyroean tiller haquebut, ca. 1490, and preserved in poor, excavated condition with yellow spots of salt all over the surface, was just sold at a small Bavarian auction at a hammer price of 5,500 euro, which in my eyes was way too much considering the fact that unless professionally desalted and conserved, the piece will slowly continue to dissolve part for part.

The touch hole was placed on the half right side, and the eight-sided muzzle section showed the characteristic dents of the 'Maximilian' style crown's head.

m

[fernando]

Nvertheless a rather interesting piece

[Matchlock]

Right, at least for as long as it won't crumble to pieces right before your eyes ...


m