Fake Fakir?

Marcus · 20th January 2014, 11:52 PM

I picked these up for $100 from a US veteran who bought them in Kabul. The brass tips seem odd. Likewise, I have not seen removable end caps on other examples. Comments?

VANDOO · 21st January 2014, 12:46 AM

IT IS LIKELY A MODERN VERSION AND THE BRASS IS MORE FANCY THAN THE OLDER STEEL TIPS. HAVING A PLACE TO STASH ITEMS INSIDE IS A PLUS ESPECIALLY IF YOU LIVE ON THE STREETS. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW IF TODAYS FAKERS STILL CARRY SUCH ITEMS AT ALL. THE SHOPS WILL CONTINUE TO MAKE THEM AS LONG AS THERE IS A MARKET LOCAL OR TOURIST. A INTERESTING ITEM FROM A PLACE WITH A INTERESTING HISTORY.

ArmsAndAntiques · 21st January 2014, 07:32 PM

The patina on the brass appears to indicate some age as well as the softness of the contours. Most tourist pieces of any type, particularly those made in India today have rough edges from poor workmanship and do not have that type of patina at all which is quite difficult to fake. I don't see modern workmanship here, but instead a late 19th-early 20th C. example, possibly earlier.

Best
LL

spiral · 21st January 2014, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmsAndAntiques

The patina on the brass appears to indicate some age as well as the softness of the contours. Most tourist pieces of any type, particularly those made in India today have rough edges from poor workmanship and do not have that type of patina at all which is quite difficult to fake. I don't see modern workmanship here, but instead a late 19th-early 20th C. example, possibly earlier.

Best
LL

The patina on the brass could be induced in a few days & smooth edges can come from a buffer in seconds.

Doesn't look like any originals Ive seen.

Spiral

ArmsAndAntiques · 22nd January 2014, 01:01 AM

IMHO the type of patina I see in the photos is not the type that is easy to induce in a couple of days. Perhaps more photos could show us the actual construction, especially what appears to the iron securing rods. Those may be the key to determining age. Smooth edges from age and smooth edges from burnishing also manifest themselves differently on items. From these photos it appears older rather than newer. I may be wrong.

spiral · 22nd January 2014, 09:34 AM

Better pictures would help one be more certain of the details of such things to be sure.

spiral

Marcus · 22nd January 2014, 01:38 PM

Hopefully these will help.

Marcus · 22nd January 2014, 01:39 PM

a couple more

ArmsAndAntiques · 22nd January 2014, 09:30 PM

I think Spiral is right. Newer rather than earlier. Those securing bars give it away. Still done well, and in fifty years when the iron has had some time to age it will be sold as an antique example...

spiral · 23rd January 2014, 08:29 PM

Yep those pics show the truth....

Cheers ArmsAndAntiques.

Spiral

Marcus · 23rd January 2014, 10:52 PM

No chance that the posts are a later repair?

spiral · 23rd January 2014, 11:41 PM

Sorry but no. Every inch & manufacturing technique shows recent work.

Given your thread title & despite false promise you cant be to surprised?

The inside surface of the horn is fresh as well. Their extinct in Afghanistan & Pakistan & supposedly protected in India, where there population has been doing well.

Kabul is full of fakes to sell to the infidel for their cash. Many local made/adapted but including those from China, Pakistan & India as well.

Most of the best stuff had gone at least a decade ago...

In truth the Russian collectors probably got the best pickings, sold to them when they were there really during the 4th Afghan war. { that Ended 25 years ago. I think?} {Were on the 5th now if memory serves correct.

}

Better luck next time.

Spiral

20th January 2014, 11:52 PM	#1
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Fake Fakir? I picked these up for $100 from a US veteran who bought them in Kabul. The brass tips seem odd. Likewise, I have not seen removable end caps on other examples. Comments? Attached Images

22nd January 2014, 01:38 PM	#7
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	more pictures Hopefully these will help. Attached Images

22nd January 2014, 01:39 PM	#8
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	pictures a couple more Attached Images

21st January 2014, 12:46 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT IS LIKELY A MODERN VERSION AND THE BRASS IS MORE FANCY THAN THE OLDER STEEL TIPS. HAVING A PLACE TO STASH ITEMS INSIDE IS A PLUS ESPECIALLY IF YOU LIVE ON THE STREETS. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW IF TODAYS FAKERS STILL CARRY SUCH ITEMS AT ALL. THE SHOPS WILL CONTINUE TO MAKE THEM AS LONG AS THERE IS A MARKET LOCAL OR TOURIST. A INTERESTING ITEM FROM A PLACE WITH A INTERESTING HISTORY.

21st January 2014, 07:32 PM	#3
ArmsAndAntiques Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 80	The patina on the brass appears to indicate some age as well as the softness of the contours. Most tourist pieces of any type, particularly those made in India today have rough edges from poor workmanship and do not have that type of patina at all which is quite difficult to fake. I don't see modern workmanship here, but instead a late 19th-early 20th C. example, possibly earlier. Best LL

22nd January 2014, 01:01 AM	#5
ArmsAndAntiques Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 80	IMHO the type of patina I see in the photos is not the type that is easy to induce in a couple of days. Perhaps more photos could show us the actual construction, especially what appears to the iron securing rods. Those may be the key to determining age. Smooth edges from age and smooth edges from burnishing also manifest themselves differently on items. From these photos it appears older rather than newer. I may be wrong.

22nd January 2014, 09:34 AM	#6
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Better pictures would help one be more certain of the details of such things to be sure. spiral

22nd January 2014, 09:30 PM	#9
ArmsAndAntiques Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 80	I think Spiral is right. Newer rather than earlier. Those securing bars give it away. Still done well, and in fifty years when the iron has had some time to age it will be sold as an antique example...

23rd January 2014, 08:29 PM	#10
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Yep those pics show the truth.... Cheers ArmsAndAntiques. Spiral

23rd January 2014, 10:52 PM	#11
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	No chance that the posts are a later repair?

23rd January 2014, 11:41 PM	#12
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Sorry but no. Every inch & manufacturing technique shows recent work. Given your thread title & despite false promise you cant be to surprised? The inside surface of the horn is fresh as well. Their extinct in Afghanistan & Pakistan & supposedly protected in India, where there population has been doing well. Kabul is full of fakes to sell to the infidel for their cash. Many local made/adapted but including those from China, Pakistan & India as well. Most of the best stuff had gone at least a decade ago... In truth the Russian collectors probably got the best pickings, sold to them when they were there really during the 4th Afghan war. { that Ended 25 years ago. I think?} {Were on the 5th now if memory serves correct. } Better luck next time. Spiral