Any Amazon collectors?

Tim Simmons · 9th January 2014, 10:53 AM

I took a picture of these two clubs in the Dhalem Berlin. They are from Micronesia. I cannot remember the exact Island group. I add them here just to show how similar they are to Amazon clubs.

Tim Simmons · 12th January 2014, 08:36 PM

From late last summer I made two purchases hoping to add to my collect but badly burnt my fingers on bad judgement. I console myself with the fact that things were a little troublesome at the time and you win some and you lose some when you gamble. However a New Year and a birthday too boot. So what about this. I am informed that it was collected by missionaries {1950s} from the Maquiritare peoples who inhabit areas of the extreme south of Venezuela and the border with Brazil, the area would have been part of the old idea of the Guyana's. Missionaries may have questionable motives but they have always been a good source of ethnographic material. 32 inches long, hard to get a good sense of it from one picture and not with similar pieces. Just have to go through a few weeks of waiting. What I do find immediately interesting is the difference in weave pattern when compared to the previous examples from much further south in this thread. When I have it I can make a more serious comparative study. In the meantime here is the item.

VANDOO · 13th January 2014, 02:36 AM

I LOOKED AT THE ITEM LAST NIGHT AND DECIDED TO PONDER ON IT FURTHER TODAY. GLAD TO SEE YOU GOT IT.

I JUST COULD NOT DETERMINE TO MY SATISFACTION IF IT WAS A WEAPON SYMBOLIC OR OTHERWISE OR SOME SORT OF IMPLEMENT.

I DO BELIEVE THE INFORMATION OF AGE, LOCATION AND TRIBE AND WHO COLLECTED IT. A NICE AUTHENTIC TRIBAL NON-TOURIST ITEM. I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR ASSESMENT WHEN YOU RECEIVE IT.

Tim Simmons · 13th January 2014, 07:50 AM

I think I have seen pictures of other Amazon pronged weapons I will search.

I am keeping me fingers that this is a case of---- He who hesitates is lost, rather than ---- Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread.

colin henshaw · 13th January 2014, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I think I have seen pictures of other Amazon pronged weapons I will search.

I am keeping me fingers that this is a case of---- He who hesitates is lost, rather than ---- Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread.

Its could be a native cigar-holder, I will see if I can dig up some pics...

VANDOO · 13th January 2014, 04:36 PM

I HAVE SEEN TWO SOUTH AMERICAN FORK LIKE ITEMS REFERED TO AS WEAPONS THAT WERE NOT AS WELL MADE AS YOUR EXAMPLE, I NEVER COULD MAKE UP MY MIND ON THEM EITHER.

THE WOOD USED TO MAKE YOUR EXAMPLE APPEARS TO BE A VERY NICE DARK HEAVY RED WOOD CALLED PAU IN BRAZIL. I THINK YOU DID WELL AT THE PRICE EVEN IF IT IS NOT A WAR CLUB. IT IS HARD TO GET ANY OLDER GOOD QUALITY ITEMS FROM SOUTH AMERICA AND THE PRICES DEMANDED BY MANY DEALERS ARE USUALLY TOO HIGH FOR ME THESE DAYS.

Tim Simmons · 13th January 2014, 05:10 PM

Colin I know what you mean by cigar holder, The end without the prongs is slightly reminiscent of the curved ends of a cigar holder. This item is 32 inches long, the same length as the Sudan club in the center of these two Amazon clubs. So it is quite substantial and will have some weight. I have found this picture of an Amazon forked weapon. I am sure I have seen larger version but cannot find any. The Indians in this region get their dart and weapon poison from tree sap. All you would need is some sap on the prongs and you have an extremely deadly close quarter weapon. The sourcing of this poison and much more background information on the Maquiritare and surrounding peoples can be found by watching a 6 part documentary on "youtube"

The Mystery Mountain.

I cannot remember which part has the poison collecting, best watch it all. Mention is made of the dangers posed by missionaries. As soon as I have it I will be able to show with other clubs.

Thanks Barry, I hope I have done well this time.

9th January 2014, 10:53 AM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,917	I took a picture of these two clubs in the Dhalem Berlin. They are from Micronesia. I cannot remember the exact Island group. I add them here just to show how similar they are to Amazon clubs. Attached Images

12th January 2014, 08:36 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,917	Orinoco From late last summer I made two purchases hoping to add to my collect but badly burnt my fingers on bad judgement. I console myself with the fact that things were a little troublesome at the time and you win some and you lose some when you gamble. However a New Year and a birthday too boot. So what about this. I am informed that it was collected by missionaries {1950s} from the Maquiritare peoples who inhabit areas of the extreme south of Venezuela and the border with Brazil, the area would have been part of the old idea of the Guyana's. Missionaries may have questionable motives but they have always been a good source of ethnographic material. 32 inches long, hard to get a good sense of it from one picture and not with similar pieces. Just have to go through a few weeks of waiting. What I do find immediately interesting is the difference in weave pattern when compared to the previous examples from much further south in this thread. When I have it I can make a more serious comparative study. In the meantime here is the item. Attached Images

13th January 2014, 05:10 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,917	Colin I know what you mean by cigar holder, The end without the prongs is slightly reminiscent of the curved ends of a cigar holder. This item is 32 inches long, the same length as the Sudan club in the center of these two Amazon clubs. So it is quite substantial and will have some weight. I have found this picture of an Amazon forked weapon. I am sure I have seen larger version but cannot find any. The Indians in this region get their dart and weapon poison from tree sap. All you would need is some sap on the prongs and you have an extremely deadly close quarter weapon. The sourcing of this poison and much more background information on the Maquiritare and surrounding peoples can be found by watching a 6 part documentary on "youtube" The Mystery Mountain. I cannot remember which part has the poison collecting, best watch it all. Mention is made of the dangers posed by missionaries. As soon as I have it I will be able to show with other clubs. Thanks Barry, I hope I have done well this time. Attached Images

13th January 2014, 02:36 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I LOOKED AT THE ITEM LAST NIGHT AND DECIDED TO PONDER ON IT FURTHER TODAY. GLAD TO SEE YOU GOT IT. I JUST COULD NOT DETERMINE TO MY SATISFACTION IF IT WAS A WEAPON SYMBOLIC OR OTHERWISE OR SOME SORT OF IMPLEMENT. I DO BELIEVE THE INFORMATION OF AGE, LOCATION AND TRIBE AND WHO COLLECTED IT. A NICE AUTHENTIC TRIBAL NON-TOURIST ITEM. I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR ASSESMENT WHEN YOU RECEIVE IT.

13th January 2014, 07:50 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,917	I think I have seen pictures of other Amazon pronged weapons I will search. I am keeping me fingers that this is a case of---- He who hesitates is lost, rather than ---- Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread.

13th January 2014, 04:36 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE SEEN TWO SOUTH AMERICAN FORK LIKE ITEMS REFERED TO AS WEAPONS THAT WERE NOT AS WELL MADE AS YOUR EXAMPLE, I NEVER COULD MAKE UP MY MIND ON THEM EITHER. THE WOOD USED TO MAKE YOUR EXAMPLE APPEARS TO BE A VERY NICE DARK HEAVY RED WOOD CALLED PAU IN BRAZIL. I THINK YOU DID WELL AT THE PRICE EVEN IF IT IS NOT A WAR CLUB. IT IS HARD TO GET ANY OLDER GOOD QUALITY ITEMS FROM SOUTH AMERICA AND THE PRICES DEMANDED BY MANY DEALERS ARE USUALLY TOO HIGH FOR ME THESE DAYS.