The Original Dhu'l-Faqar

AhmedH · 28th November 2013, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Ahmedh... All thanks to Al Kindi !! Wa anta !!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Ibrahiim,

And to you too, of course, buddy!

-Ahmed Helal Hussein-

AhmedH · 1st December 2013, 10:16 AM

Ariel said:

"What can be cautiously claimed from the voluminous circumstantial materials assembled by Ahmed is that, based on texts and recollections of ancient authors, Dhu'l Fakar COULD have been similar in its appearance to the Topkapi example, as opposed to the forked pattern uniformly agreed upon by generations of Islamic scholars. But in the absense of an iron-clad provenance tracing this sword backward from owner to owner, one cannot prove that this is THE TRUE Dhu'l Fakar. "

Please note that Topkapi doesn't hold any private collection...in fact, the Ottoman sultans -who later on also became caliphs of Islam- took these swords and other holy relics from the Abbasid caliphs who were in Cairo. Some of these relics were also stored in Makkah and in Yanbu' (in what is now Saudi Arabia). The storing of these relics in Makkah and Yanbu' was several years before the Mongols sacked Baghdad in 1258 C.E.

As for the Abbasids possessing Dhu'l-Faqar...well this was during the reign of Caliph al-Mahdi (r. 775 - 785 C.E.), or even towards the end of reign of al-Mansur (r. 754-775 C.E.); and since then, that great sword was in their possession; until the Abbasids renounced their right of the caliphate to either Sultan Selim I, or his son, Sultan Suleyman I. The two stories mentioned by al-Asma'i reveal that Dhu'l-Faqar was in possession of Caliph Harun al-Rashid (r. 786-809 C.E.). There are poems mentioning 9th century C.E. Caliphs possessing Dhu'l-Faqar.

BTW, Professor Gulru Necipoglu of Harvard University has told me in 2009 that during her Sabbatical leave to Topkapi Museum Archives, she was able to obtain archival data that reveals that THIS SWORD was indeed Dhu'l-Faqar, and that the Ottoman sultans and court knew that THIS SWORD was Dhu'l-Faqar INDEED. You could email her or even call her to verify what I've told you (and I think I've told you about that before, no?).

Remember again, that I didn't find this sword in some auction, or some private collection in a wealthy man's house or something...NO! I found this sword preserved in the Imperial Treasury Section in Topkapi Museum; that Museum in which the possessions of the LAST CALIPHS OF ISLAM are preserved...so, please understand.

Cheers,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

AhmedH · 1st December 2013, 10:19 AM

Typing error: "Please note that Topkapi doesn't hold any private collection" should be corrected to: "Please note that Topkapi doesn't JUST hold any private collection".

I apologize for the typing mistake...and please bear in mind that English is but my second language!!!

ariel · 2nd December 2013, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AhmedH

BTW, Professor Gulru Necipoglu of Harvard University has told me in 2009 that during her Sabbatical leave to Topkapi Museum Archives, she was able to obtain archival data that reveals that THIS SWORD was indeed Dhu'l-Faqar, and that the Ottoman sultans and court knew that THIS SWORD was Dhu'l-Faqar INDEED. You could email her or even call her to verify what I've told you (and I think I've told you about that before, no?).

Cheers,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

Well, it gets curiosier and curiosier....

A Harvard professor finds archival data confirming this sword's identity as "True Dhul' Fakar" and, moreover, proof of conspiracy at the Ottoman Court to keep this fact secret, and she does not publish it ?????

I know quite a lot of Harvard faculty and every one of them would kill his/her grandmother for a publication of that caliber:-)

Hilmi Aydin, a curator of swords at Topkapi, waits 12 years for your article to be published and , - also!, - doesn't publish the sensational story?

Multiple other researchers who know the "secret of Dhu'l Fakar" are all still silent?

Well, Ahmed, they all must love you a lot and are ready to sacrifice their academic glory to give you a leg up....

Please, don't complain about academic conspiracies against you anymore : you are surrounded by unbelievably generous and supporting people.

Andrew · 2nd December 2013, 12:23 AM

Point made, I would say. Let's move on, please.

AhmedH · 2nd December 2013, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Point made, I would say. Let's move on, please.

All right, Sir!

Any dear member wishing to make a constructive comment is welcome, and I'll be more than happy to answer him/her.

2nd December 2013, 12:23 AM	#5
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Staff Request Point made, I would say. Let's move on, please.

1st December 2013, 10:16 AM	#2
AhmedH Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Cairo, Egypt. Posts: 142	Ariel said: "What can be cautiously claimed from the voluminous circumstantial materials assembled by Ahmed is that, based on texts and recollections of ancient authors, Dhu'l Fakar COULD have been similar in its appearance to the Topkapi example, as opposed to the forked pattern uniformly agreed upon by generations of Islamic scholars. But in the absense of an iron-clad provenance tracing this sword backward from owner to owner, one cannot prove that this is THE TRUE Dhu'l Fakar. " Please note that Topkapi doesn't hold any private collection...in fact, the Ottoman sultans -who later on also became caliphs of Islam- took these swords and other holy relics from the Abbasid caliphs who were in Cairo. Some of these relics were also stored in Makkah and in Yanbu' (in what is now Saudi Arabia). The storing of these relics in Makkah and Yanbu' was several years before the Mongols sacked Baghdad in 1258 C.E. As for the Abbasids possessing Dhu'l-Faqar...well this was during the reign of Caliph al-Mahdi (r. 775 - 785 C.E.), or even towards the end of reign of al-Mansur (r. 754-775 C.E.); and since then, that great sword was in their possession; until the Abbasids renounced their right of the caliphate to either Sultan Selim I, or his son, Sultan Suleyman I. The two stories mentioned by al-Asma'i reveal that Dhu'l-Faqar was in possession of Caliph Harun al-Rashid (r. 786-809 C.E.). There are poems mentioning 9th century C.E. Caliphs possessing Dhu'l-Faqar. BTW, Professor Gulru Necipoglu of Harvard University has told me in 2009 that during her Sabbatical leave to Topkapi Museum Archives, she was able to obtain archival data that reveals that THIS SWORD was indeed Dhu'l-Faqar, and that the Ottoman sultans and court knew that THIS SWORD was Dhu'l-Faqar INDEED. You could email her or even call her to verify what I've told you (and I think I've told you about that before, no?). Remember again, that I didn't find this sword in some auction, or some private collection in a wealthy man's house or something...NO! I found this sword preserved in the Imperial Treasury Section in Topkapi Museum; that Museum in which the possessions of the LAST CALIPHS OF ISLAM are preserved...so, please understand. Cheers, Ahmed Helal Hussein

1st December 2013, 10:19 AM	#3
AhmedH Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Cairo, Egypt. Posts: 142	Typing error: "Please note that Topkapi doesn't hold any private collection" should be corrected to: "Please note that Topkapi doesn't JUST hold any private collection". I apologize for the typing mistake...and please bear in mind that English is but my second language!!!