New Member, New Keris

Jean · 23rd November 2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

I'm not specifically speaking about the keris under discussion, or Detlef's example, but Javanese tanggalan sheath is often made from repurposed ladrang sheath, just as nguku bimo on telale gajah. In fact, I personally think this is the origin of the design. The Sumatran/Malay example is another.

Hello Chandra,
This is an interesting opinion, however looking at my specimen and one typical warangka branggah from Yogya, I find it difficult that the tanggalan warangka could be reshaped from a branggah one for several reasons:
. The front part of the tanggalan warangka is more protruding and rounded than the branggah
. The tanggalan warangka is more curved on the top than the branggah
. The groove on the front side is different
. The rear part of the branggah is slimmer and flat at the bottom and it looks difficult to re-sape it to a tanggalan.

What do you mean by Sumatra/ Malay example?
Thanks and regards
Jean

A. G. Maisey · 23rd November 2013, 08:16 PM

Jean, forgive me, but TA said that in his opinion the origin of the design was from reshaping a ladrang, not that all tanggalan were from ladrang.

In fact damaged ladrangs were the origin of a second type of wrongko also, the Madura/East Jawa kacir, but as with the tanggalan the kacir became a form in its own right.

Actually, I have a bit of a problem with this name:- "tanggalan".

I'd never heard this name used until I saw people on this Forum using it, then I found it in Ensiklopedi,published in 2004. It was not in the first edition (Ensiklopedi Budaya Nasional) published in 1988.

Through the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's everybody I knew in Solo called this wrongko form "wulan tumanggal", and they probably still do today, although its been a while since I've used or heard the name there.

The word "tanggalan" means "calendar". So this is a "calendar wrongko" ??

On the other hand, "wulan tumanggal" means "new moon", a name which to me seems very appropriate and perfectly understandable.

"Calendar wrongko" ?????

David · 23rd November 2013, 09:00 PM

Thanks Alan. Very interesting info.

tunggulametung · 24th November 2013, 06:23 AM

Thanks Alan.
Jean, exactly my thought is what has been rephrased by Alan above.
I also meat to say that my opinion is limited to Javanese warangka and not similar warangka found on Sumatra/Peninsula, which in my opinion started as genuine style (Islamic influence?), or at least has been refined to its highest potential.

Alan, I think you have a valid point. The idea is indeed new moon (Javanese/Islamic calendar use lunar system), and it started perhaps as if one said gayaman, ladrangan, etc so the speaker might means (in informal setting) "in the style of wulan tumanggal". Wulan tumanggal or wulan tumanggalan is perhaps more appropriate but I personally would use any of the above as long other understand. Thank you for your reminder.

Jean · 24th November 2013, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

Jean, exactly my thought is what has been rephrased by Alan above.
I also meant to say that my opinion is limited to Javanese warangka and not similar warangka found on Sumatra/Peninsula, which in my opinion started as genuine style (Islamic influence?), or at least has been refined to its highest potential.

Thank you Chandra and sorry for the misunderstanding, however I still doubt that a proper warangka tanggalan or whatever you call it can be made from a repurposed ladrang or branggah unless it is decided by the craftsman during the making process...

And in Sumatra these sheaths are locally called dua hari bulan according to the EK.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 24th November 2013, 10:23 AM

Jean, Tunggulametung would know this, but you may not:-

the root word for both "tanggalan" and "tumanggal" is tanggal, which means both "date" and "the beginning of the lunar month". It would be very easy to make a small error in composition.

from about 1982 through into the 1990's ---maybe '94 or '95--- one of my closest friends in Solo was a gentleman named Agus Irianto, also known as Agus Warangka. He was the grandson of a one of the all time great m'ranggis---I forget who--- and a very talented tukang wrongko himself.

He only ever called this type of wrongko a wulan tumanggal, and I never did hear anybody in Solo call it anything else.

Maybe in some other place it is known as a tanggalan wrongko, or maybe we are looking at another of the discrepancies that we can find in EK. I don't know.

But anyway, to avoid argument, I think I'll just call these things "calendar wrongkos" from now on.

Jean · 25th November 2013, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

..........
But anyway, to avoid argument, I think I'll just call these things "calendar wrongkos" from now on.

Thank you Alan.
I would like to know more about the origin of these Javanese "calendar wrongkos" if possible:
. If I remember well the EK mentions that this type of wrongko originated during the Demak period and virtually stopped to be made after the old Mataram period. However these wrongkos seem to have been made until recently and may still be made although they are not very common.
. All the specimens which are shown and which I saw seem to be in Jogja style (hilt & pendok) so is it correct to say that this is a specific Jogja style?
. Any idea why this elegant and convenient style of wrongko did not get more successful in Java?
Best regards

23rd November 2013, 08:16 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	Jean, forgive me, but TA said that in his opinion the origin of the design was from reshaping a ladrang, not that all tanggalan were from ladrang. In fact damaged ladrangs were the origin of a second type of wrongko also, the Madura/East Jawa kacir, but as with the tanggalan the kacir became a form in its own right. Actually, I have a bit of a problem with this name:- "tanggalan". I'd never heard this name used until I saw people on this Forum using it, then I found it in Ensiklopedi,published in 2004. It was not in the first edition (Ensiklopedi Budaya Nasional) published in 1988. Through the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's everybody I knew in Solo called this wrongko form "wulan tumanggal", and they probably still do today, although its been a while since I've used or heard the name there. The word "tanggalan" means "calendar". So this is a "calendar wrongko" ?? On the other hand, "wulan tumanggal" means "new moon", a name which to me seems very appropriate and perfectly understandable. "Calendar wrongko" ?????

23rd November 2013, 09:00 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Thanks Alan. Very interesting info.

24th November 2013, 06:23 AM	#4
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	Thanks Alan. Jean, exactly my thought is what has been rephrased by Alan above. I also meat to say that my opinion is limited to Javanese warangka and not similar warangka found on Sumatra/Peninsula, which in my opinion started as genuine style (Islamic influence?), or at least has been refined to its highest potential. Alan, I think you have a valid point. The idea is indeed new moon (Javanese/Islamic calendar use lunar system), and it started perhaps as if one said gayaman, ladrangan, etc so the speaker might means (in informal setting) "in the style of wulan tumanggal". Wulan tumanggal or wulan tumanggalan is perhaps more appropriate but I personally would use any of the above as long other understand. Thank you for your reminder.

24th November 2013, 10:23 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	Jean, Tunggulametung would know this, but you may not:- the root word for both "tanggalan" and "tumanggal" is tanggal, which means both "date" and "the beginning of the lunar month". It would be very easy to make a small error in composition. from about 1982 through into the 1990's ---maybe '94 or '95--- one of my closest friends in Solo was a gentleman named Agus Irianto, also known as Agus Warangka. He was the grandson of a one of the all time great m'ranggis---I forget who--- and a very talented tukang wrongko himself. He only ever called this type of wrongko a wulan tumanggal, and I never did hear anybody in Solo call it anything else. Maybe in some other place it is known as a tanggalan wrongko, or maybe we are looking at another of the discrepancies that we can find in EK. I don't know. But anyway, to avoid argument, I think I'll just call these things "calendar wrongkos" from now on.