Historic Saudi sabre sells for $1 m

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ALEX

The presence of Shah Abbas, Assad-Allah, etc. cartouches does not imply Safavid origin. this has been written and discussed so many times before So many of those cartouches were added later. The blade of presentation saif above is not Safavid. The one with two gold inlaid cartouches is more likely. but could be anywhere of 18-19 C i.e. early-late Qajar period.

Salaams ALEX ~ As we understand it.. There was a lot of copying of the name of the great Syrian Sword Maker who was then employed at the Safavid Royal Court...in about 1600... and whose name appeared on blades and the name of the Safavid ruler whose name also appeared on blades. Assad Ullah the sword maker and Shah Abbas the ruler. I have to say I had to dash into my library and seek out The Safavids in a bid to half buff up on that difficult period.

If the sword is not Safavid can you id its provenance?

I hope someone may clarify who the Gentleman is being presented with the sword.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

AFAIK, swords of Safavid era had no fullers.

Swords of that region were re-hilted and re-decorated with new cartouches, signatures or just phrases on multiple occasions. There are tons of fake Assadulla's and Kalbe Ali's swords made between 17th and 19th centuries, with signatures of Assadulla made on monosteel or Sham blades:-) That is why Figiel was so fastidious about high-class wootz patterns. Recently, I even saw pictures of a khanjar signed with Assadulla's name, even though swordmakers and knifemakers in Iran belonged to different guilds and were not on speaking terms with each other:-) An inscription on the blade proclaiming attribution to a famous master or personality almost always means nothing: it could have been incised centuries later.

The story of Assadulla being a Syrian rather than Iranian master is still very popular in Arab countries. I guess local patriotism plays not a small role :-)
The same about Safavid Iran being a " gunpowder empire": on the contrary, Safavids lacked artillery and that was the main reason why Ismail and Tahmasp were beaten by the Ottomans. Shah Abbas created artillery force only under British instruction, just like most of his army was composed of Turkish and Caucasian ghulams and led by Caucasians.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ariel

AFAIK, swords of Safavid era had no fullers.

Swords of that region were re-hilted and re-decorated with new cartouches, signatures or just phrases on multiple occasions. There are tons of fake Assadulla's and Kalbe Ali's swords made between 17th and 19th centuries, with signatures of Assadulla made on monosteel or Sham blades:-) That is why Figiel was so fastidious about high-class wootz patterns. Recently, I even saw pictures of a khanjar signed with Assadulla's name, even though swordmakers and knifemakers in Iran belonged to different guilds and were not on speaking terms with each other:-) An inscription on the blade proclaiming attribution to a famous master or personality almost always means nothing: it could have been incised centuries later.

The story of Assadulla being a Syrian rather than Iranian master is still very popular in Arab countries. I guess local patriotism plays not a small role :-)
The same about Safavid Iran being a " gunpowder empire": on the contrary, Safavids lacked artillery and that was the main reason why Ismail and Tahmasp were beaten by the Ottomans. Shah Abbas created artillery force only under British instruction, just like most of his army was composed of Turkish and Caucasian ghulams and led by Caucasians.

Salaams Ariel, Yes the Assadulla story stems from Straight Street Damascus and the sword-makers therein...It is true that "gunpowder" is a very odd nickname for such a dynasty when it perhaps should have been called virtually cannon-less except for a few siege cannons they just never got into tactical battlefield cannons... but fought in what they considered the old chivalrous ways with bow and arrow and blades.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams ALEX ~ As we understand it.. There was a lot of copying of the name of the great Syrian Sword Maker who was then employed at the Safavid Royal Court...in about 1600... and whose name appeared on blades and the name of the Safavid ruler whose name also appeared on blades. Assad Ullah the sword maker and Shah Abbas the ruler. I have to say I had to dash into my library and seek out The Safavids in a bid to half buff up on that difficult period.

If the sword is not Safavid can you id its provenance?

I hope someone may clarify who the Gentleman is being presented with the sword.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

The signer of the accompanying document in French, post #10, Homayoun Shah Assefy, states that the sword was presented to his father (i.e. H.H. Sardar Ahmad Shah Khan (1899-1951), Minister of the Royal Court (1929-1951), a member of the Afghan Royal Family).
Regards,
Andreas

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The signer of the accompanying document in French, post #10, Homayoun Shah Assefy, states that the sword was presented to his father (i.e. H.H. Sardar Ahmad Shah Khan (1899-1951), Minister of the Royal Court (1929-1951), a member of the Afghan Royal Family).
Regards,
Andreas[/QUOTE]


Salaams Andreas, That is amazing and well noted by you..Thank you so much.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.



Wikipedia notes that Quote "In the Royal Afghan Kingdom, the original Nishan-i-Sardari (Order of the Leader), founded by King Amanullah in 1923, was bestowed for exceptional service to the Crown by the Afghan monarch. Recipients enjoyed the titles of Sardar-i-Ala or Sardar-i-Ali before their names and also received grants of land. The original Order was disbanded in 1929, and was later revived by King Muhammad Zahir Shah. In addition, several important tribal leaders and chiefs in Afghanistan, were also designated as 'Sardars'." Unquote.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all~ Key detail is contained under the Asia Section on Shamshir at http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/shamshir/index.html

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

... There was a lot of copying of the name of the great Syrian Sword Maker who was then employed at the Safavid Royal Court...in about 1600... ...
...
If the sword is not Safavid can you id its provenance?
...

Hello Ibrahiim,

Certainly, the famous AA signature was copied for centuries and cannot be taken as a sole attribute of provenance, the blade comes first. As for the subject blade, it is of later form, the cartouche is crude and typical Qajar combination of Lion and "O Giver of Life" (or "O Fulfiller of Needs" as per other version of the same translation).

I recommend the great Mr. Oliver Pinchot's article "The Persian Shamshir and the Signature of Assad Allah", it should still be available on-line

Below are few relevant examples: AA cartouche on late Persian Kard, and an ineligible attempt to copy (Shah Abbas? IMHO) on a Qajar blade.
Any ideas on what this cartouche could say? Most cartouches were copied with well known statements, so it's strange that someone just created ineligible/ unreadable one.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ALEX

Hello Ibrahiim,

Certainly, the famous AA signature was copied for centuries and cannot be taken as a sole attribute of provenance, the blade comes first. As for the subject blade, it is of later form, the cartouche is crude and typical Qajar combination of Lion and "O Giver of Life" (or "O Fulfiller of Needs" as per other version of the same translation).

I recommend the great Mr. Oliver Pinchot's article "The Persian Shamshir and the Signature of Assad Allah", it should still be available on-line

Below are few relevant examples: AA cartouche on late Persian Kard, and an ineligible attempt to copy (Shah Abbas? IMHO) on a Qajar blade.
Any ideas on what this cartouche could say? Most cartouches were copied with well known statements, so it's strange that someone just created ineligible/ unreadable one.

Salaams~ Yes there is some meaning such as in the two cartouches the above appears to say Abbas, Shah Wallah. and Ali Assadullah (under..) ie Lion Of God..So you are on track with that.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.