The Original Dhu'l-Faqar

[kronckew]

like western christian relics and pieces of the true cross, the turin shroud, etc. - it sometimes comes down to a matter of faith, with the ';truth' possibly never to be known. could it be the true sword - yes - could it be otherwise? also yes. could there have been modifications over it's life. possible. in the end, it's like the print in the rock under the golden dome. faith. it is true because we want it to be, as much as it really is. if enough people believe it is, their belief imbues the object with their energy and the myth becomes reality.

and maybe it always was.

[ALEX]

I am with Ariel here. We live in a quite advanced technological age and can use the science to unveil many mysteries. And so we should. The Turin shroud was scientifically proven to be much later then claimed, in addition of being "geometrically unrealistic". yet, many choose to ignore it and believe that it's real deal. It's up to individual to believe in facts or what they're told. However, when it comes to a serious academic research - it needs to be based on confirmed and verified facts.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ALEX

I am with Ariel here. We live in a quite advanced technological age and can use the science to unveil many mysteries. And so we should. The Turin shroud was scientifically proven to be much later then claimed, in addition of being "geometrically unrealistic". yet, many choose to ignore it and believe that it's real deal. It's up to individual to believe in facts or what they're told. However, when it comes to a serious academic research - it needs to be based on confirmed and verified facts.

Salaams Alex, Last point first if I may?

This is serious academic research. It is based upon probably the finest collection of weapons at Topkapi . The facts are not only verified but expanded into by the treatise. This group of swords (that I have now viewed since the author kindly PM'd me with the entire group) is so important to the student of Ethnographic Arms n' Armour... As you know the Topkapi represents a crucible of data and learning unrivaled in other parts of the world...and is "The Centre" for research into a host of Islamic arms and armour worldwide.

It is good that you agree with Ariel who argues his corner well and makes people think ... that's what I like about the Forum; the ability to free think an idea without prior constraints, rules or laid down doctrines... exactly what the author has done here. The previous experts and masters are held to question... quite right ! since it appears they were mistaken...They were only human no?

I also like your terminology using the word "Science," though, it seems the result was achieved not so much from any use of technical gadgetry but more by using knowledge and the mark one eyeball coupled with the art (or science) of deduction. The mark of a true detective. The essence of research and the banner to which we all aspire...as members of this Forum.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ALEX]

I am not questioning the importance of weapons at Topkapi. They have quite important swords, but regretfully cannot differentiate between Safavid and Qajar, Persia and India, even new from old to begin with. Evidently, one must ask: what are their authority and research methods?
We have a nice effort and theory here. As any theory, it has to gain traction and consensus from some well-known experts before becoming something tangible. Until then, as Ariel said, it remains a "momentous discovery".

[AhmedH]

Originally Posted by ALEX

I am with Ariel here. We live in a quite advanced technological age and can use the science to unveil many mysteries. And so we should. The Turin shroud was scientifically proven to be much later then claimed, in addition of being "geometrically unrealistic". yet, many choose to ignore it and believe that it's real deal. It's up to individual to believe in facts or what they're told. However, when it comes to a serious academic research - it needs to be based on confirmed and verified facts.

Hi ALEX,

Wasn't my article about that? Did you read it thoroughly? I hope you've enjoyed the facts that are in it!

Cheers!
Ahmed Helal Hussein

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kronckew

like western christian relics and pieces of the true cross, the turin shroud, etc. - it sometimes comes down to a matter of faith, with the ';truth' possibly never to be known. could it be the true sword - yes - could it be otherwise? also yes. could there have been modifications over it's life. possible. in the end, it's like the print in the rock under the golden dome. faith. it is true because we want it to be, as much as it really is. if enough people believe it is, their belief imbues the object with their energy and the myth becomes reality.

and maybe it always was.

Salaams kronckew ~ I think the Turin Shroud is an excellent example and would have agreed in fact that this sword was an untouchable subject before I read the fine work now submitted... Nicely put Sir.

I also would have agreed on the religious nature which incorporates philosophical and mythical beliefs which we often shy away from...though occasionally dipping into that rich area through Talismanic influences and so on... very much part of Ethnographic research.

It is a great arms detective that can separate the difficult, nebulous issues of belief, religion, dreams, emotions and facts...yet remain on course finally to place the record straighter...I think that has been achieved.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.