New Maguindanao Kris Form

Dimasalang · 7th November 2013, 02:06 AM

Unbelievable piece!!!

Selos.

Battara · 7th November 2013, 04:47 AM

Robert, thank you for the type of comparison you made in pictures. It helps - yes uncanny similarity.

Dimasalang, I understand......

Robert · 7th November 2013, 05:27 AM

Jose, do the bands show any wear where (if this originally had the two outside straps) they might have made contact? Also does the band closest to the end of the hilt have gaps where the straps would have gone underneath it like shown in the photo above?

Robert

Maurice · 7th November 2013, 08:11 AM

It could be an identical, but it looks very much the same as datu Piangs kris!

Very fascinating and probably the best find in years Jose!

Maurice

kai · 7th November 2013, 08:20 AM

Sorry for joining the party that late...

Congrats Jose - I'm very glad you got this spectacular kris to mellow the sorrow earlier this year!

While Jose's kris is very, very similar to Datu Pinang's shown on the well-known pic, I'm sure it's not the same piece: There are several differences in details - most obviously seen in the okir of the wing; also the ring closest to the blade seem to be differently ornamented. You can most easily verify if you check the holes/windows of the open-worked okir along the edge of the wing starting from the curly tip: it goes small-large-small vs. large-small-large. Despite the limited resolution of the Datu Pinang pic, there are some more okir details that are different. It would still be very interesting to hear wether there is any wear detectable that would indicate a similar strap construction.

I agree that the placement of the rings is kinda odd. However, pushing the last ring further toward the pommel into a similar position as shown on the historic pic, would pretty much kill the flow of lines of a major part of the okir work. Not that hiding stuff and breaking the rhythm is something unheard of in this culture but still...

This find really did clear up many questions I had been mulling over when looking at that pic of Datu Pinang's kris again and again - kudos to Jose for sharing his treasure!

Best wishes,
Kai

David · 7th November 2013, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I agree that the placement of the rings is kinda odd. However, pushing the last ring further toward the pommel into a similar position as shown on the historic pic, would pretty much kill the flow of lines of a major part of the okir work. Not that hiding stuff and breaking the rhythm is something unheard of in this culture but still...

Yes Kai, but isn't that exactly what it also does in the historic photo of Datu Pinang?

Spunjer · 7th November 2013, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Sorry for joining the party that late...

Congrats Jose - I'm very glad you got this spectacular kris to mellow the sorrow earlier this year!

While Jose's kris is very, very similar to Datu Pinang's shown on the well-known pic, I'm sure it's not the same piece: There are several differences in details - most obviously seen in the okir of the wing; also the ring closest to the blade seem to be differently ornamented. You can most easily verify if you check the holes/windows of the open-worked okir along the edge of the wing starting from the curly tip: it goes small-large-small vs. large-small-large. Despite the limited resolution of the Datu Pinang pic, there are some more okir details that are different. It would still be very interesting to hear wether there is any wear detectable that would indicate a similar strap construction.

The kris on Piang's picture is the clearest we've got but unfortunately the minute details are very hard to discern, so I was basing my assumption on the the general outline. The details you mentioned are unfortunately pretty smeared, and we can just again assume that it might or might not be similar. I was looking at the reverse number 7, the three pretzel looking okir to the right of it, another pretzel/bowtie looking okir just above the reverse 7, and the overall motif of the wing appendage okir. But then again Jose mentioned that the top ring is immovable, so I guess it's all moot...

CCUAL · 8th November 2013, 04:51 AM

Photos from ebay auction. See photo #3 the ring was cut for internal clamp stirrup.

Battara · 9th November 2013, 04:35 AM

The only problem with this supposition is that there is absolutely no room for internal fitting because the wood core is too tight against the fittings and there no room either next to the tang (yes I took off the hilt).

I find it more likely that the silver strip bend in a way that part went on top and the other part went up the hilt.

However in general I would agree with you.

Spunjer · 7th November 2013, 05:12 AM

some more photoshopping...

8th November 2013, 04:51 AM	#8
CCUAL Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 76	Photos from ebay auction. See photo #3 the ring was cut for internal clamp stirrup. Attached Images

7th November 2013, 05:12 AM	#10
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	some more photoshopping... Attached Images

7th November 2013, 02:06 AM	#1
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	Unbelievable piece!!! Selos.

7th November 2013, 04:47 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,270	Robert, thank you for the type of comparison you made in pictures. It helps - yes uncanny similarity. Dimasalang, I understand......

7th November 2013, 05:27 AM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Jose, do the bands show any wear where (if this originally had the two outside straps) they might have made contact? Also does the band closest to the end of the hilt have gaps where the straps would have gone underneath it like shown in the photo above? Robert

7th November 2013, 08:11 AM	#4
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	It could be an identical, but it looks very much the same as datu Piangs kris! Very fascinating and probably the best find in years Jose! Maurice

7th November 2013, 08:20 AM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Sorry for joining the party that late... Congrats Jose - I'm very glad you got this spectacular kris to mellow the sorrow earlier this year! While Jose's kris is very, very similar to Datu Pinang's shown on the well-known pic, I'm sure it's not the same piece: There are several differences in details - most obviously seen in the okir of the wing; also the ring closest to the blade seem to be differently ornamented. You can most easily verify if you check the holes/windows of the open-worked okir along the edge of the wing starting from the curly tip: it goes small-large-small vs. large-small-large. Despite the limited resolution of the Datu Pinang pic, there are some more okir details that are different. It would still be very interesting to hear wether there is any wear detectable that would indicate a similar strap construction. I agree that the placement of the rings is kinda odd. However, pushing the last ring further toward the pommel into a similar position as shown on the historic pic, would pretty much kill the flow of lines of a major part of the okir work. Not that hiding stuff and breaking the rhythm is something unheard of in this culture but still... This find really did clear up many questions I had been mulling over when looking at that pic of Datu Pinang's kris again and again - kudos to Jose for sharing his treasure! Best wishes, Kai

9th November 2013, 04:35 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,270	The only problem with this supposition is that there is absolutely no room for internal fitting because the wood core is too tight against the fittings and there no room either next to the tang (yes I took off the hilt). I find it more likely that the silver strip bend in a way that part went on top and the other part went up the hilt. However in general I would agree with you.