Persian mail and plate shirt.

[ALEX]

I cannot agree with you more, Estcrh. Both Askeri Muse and Topkapi Palace armory have countless mistakes, some on a verge of being ludicrous, and some well beyond . Some museums are not really interested in academic study (cause it involves work , and they assume their tourist audience does not care much either. They just want to show some weapons to the kids and keep the ticket sales going. I'd not spend any effort pointing it to them, it'd be frustrating waste of time in most cases. One should be proud by noticing the mistake, silently smiling and telling to oneself: "good catch", and enjoying the show... and later sharing it with those few who know here on the Forum So, well done and thanks for sharing!

[JamesKelly]

Ahh . . . I am new to the world of swords and armor & really don't know any more than those museums. To me, joining this site has been like when I went from the Smart Guy in High School to lowly Freshman in college. This Freshman still works to comprehend the Obvious-to-You errors.

For example, that last photo of some plate armour on a man's fore-arm looks to me like - what? For a horse's nose? Damnifino.

Oh, well. I'll figure it out.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by JamesKelly

Ahh . . . I am new to the world of swords and armor & really don't know any more than those museums. To me, joining this site has been like when I went from the Smart Guy in High School to lowly Freshman in college. This Freshman still works to comprehend the Obvious-to-You errors.

For example, that last photo of some plate armour on a man's fore-arm looks to me like - what? For a horse's nose? Damnifino.

Oh, well. I'll figure it out.

James, here is a link to help you, one hint...that is not an arm guard.


http://www.pinterest.com/samuraianti...persian-armor/

[VANDOO]

HERE ARE 3 PICTURES OF A JAPANESE SAMAURAI ARMOR MASK VERY SIMULAR TO THE ONE POSTED FOR COMPARASION.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

HERE ARE 3 PICTURES OF A JAPANESE SAMAURAI ARMOR MASK VERY SIMULAR TO THE ONE POSTED FOR COMPARASION.

VANDOO, yep, thats how easy it would be for them to check it out, I just sent them another email with detailed links, I will see it they respond this time.

Hello, I want to inform you that the item in your collection labeled as a "European executioners mask" is not an "executioners mask" and it is not "European". The mask is actually a Japanese mask worn by samurai warriors, it is called a "somen" and if you do a simple google search for "samurai somen" you will find many similar masks. Currently your image is being posted all over the internet with this wrong description, it would be quite easy to check out what I am saying and fix the description, I hope you will take the time to investigate this matter as your institution has a very good reputation and people believe the descriptions posted on your items, thank you very much.

[estcrh]

I also sent a message the Los Angles County Museum of Art about the mail and plate shirt, lets see if they respond.

Hello, I am writing to inform your institution that an item on your website is currently mis-identified and it is also not being displayed properly. The item in question is being called ("Breastplate, Iran, 16th-17th century, Arms and Armor, Steel with silver inlay24 x 39 in. (61.0 x 99.0 cm), The Nasli M. Heeramaneck Collection, gift of Joan Palevsky (M.73.5.729a-j), Islamic Art") http://collections.lacma.org/node/221440 This armor is not a "breastplate", it is actually a mail and plate shirt (zirh gomlak or zirah baktar / zirah bagtar). This is not the worse error unfortunately, someone has placed a completely separate form of armor on each shoulder, these are actually a rare form of knee and thigh armor (dizcek), these absolutely do not belong on the shoulders of this mail and plate shirt, they should be dis-attached from the shirt and be displayed, cataloged and inventoried as individual items.

I have provided a link were you can see examples of both types of armor, a little research will show you that the item is not properly displayed or labeled, since your institution has a very good name and people are now downloading these images and copying the descriptions it would be in your best interest to correct these inaccuracies, thank you.

[estcrh]

One more example, a well known armor from the Deutsches Historisches Museum (Museum of German History), with this example it is easier to list the parts which belong then the ones that do not. Since I do not speak German someone else will have to tell them that they are making their institution look foolish.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by estcrh

I also sent a message the Los Angles County Museum of Art about the mail and plate shirt, lets see if they respond.

I just received an email from Dr. Linda Komaroff, Curator of Islamic Art and Department Head, Art of the Middle East, Los Angeles County Museum of Art. I think this is a great reply.

Thank you for calling to our attention the errors on the museum's website. The curatorial departments do have responsibility for updating the website. Although we try very hard to pass along the correct information it does not always find its way to the internet. The armor in question is currently on exhibition and is shown correctly as in the attached image. I think you will agree it looks much better.

Sadly someone mounted the knee guards on the shoulders many years ago, around 1995, as reflected in that old image. They are currently in our conservation department being cleaned though they are perhaps not a matched pair.The shirt of mail and plate is exhibited with a 15th-century helmet and two leg guards of similar date, which unfortunately are definitely not a matched pair. We will do our very best to have the old image removed and the correct information inserted.

An image of the current display and the new description.

Shirt of Mail and Plate
Iran, 15th century
Steel with silver inlay and traces of gilding
The Nasli M. Heeramaneck Collection, gift of Joan Palevsky
M.73.5.729a