MOST DESIRED OCEANIC WAR CLUBS 4: SAMOA

VANDOO · 28th September 2013, 04:57 PM

THE BASIC FORM USED IN MAKEING MOST CLUBS IS THE COCONUT LEAFSTALK THE NEXT BASIC FORM IS SAID TO BE THE BANNA LEAF ( LAUFA'I ). THE MAIN DIFFERENCE IS THE BANNA LEAF HAS A ROUNDED STRIKING END NOT FLAT AS IN COCONUT STALK FORMS. I AM HAVING TROUBLE FINDING A BASIC PICTURE OF THIS FORM AS IT AND THE PADDLE CLUBS ARE SO SIMULAR IN MANY WAYS.
1.BANNA LEAF TO SHOW GENERAL SHAPE.
2. AN EXAMPLE OF COCONUT STALK AND BANNA LEAF FOR COMPARISON. I THINK THESE ARE TONGAN IN ORIGIN BUT MAY BE SAMOAN .
3. THE END LOOKS LIKE BANNA LEAF FORM BUT THE REST IS MODIFIED HEAVY TONGAN INFLUENCE OR TONGAN MADE?.
4. SEVERAL CLUBS THE ONES WITH ROUNDED END ARE BANNA LEAF THE FLAT ENDS ARE COCONUT STALK. ALL ARE TONGAN STATE CLUBS
5. A FEW MORE OF THE GENERAL BANNA LEAF FORM
I DON'T HAVE PICTURES OF CERTIFIED SAMOAN EXAMPLES OF THIS FORM AND AM HAVING TO USE TONGAN EXAMPLES FOR ILLISTRATION SO WILL MOVE ON TO OTHER BASIC FEATURES OF SAMOAN CLUBS.
TONGAN AND SAMOAN CLUBS HAVE A FLAIR TO THE BUTT (PROXIMAL END) WITH NO FLANGES AS FOUND IN SOME CLUBS FROM FIJI. SEE FIGURE #6
TONGAN AND SAMOAN CLUBS OFTEN HAVE LUGS ON THE PROXIMAL END FOR ATTACHING A CORD FOR HANGING OR AS A LANYARD. THIS LUG IS NOT FOUND ON FIJI CLUBS BUT AS TONGAN INFLUENCE WAS STRONG THEY ARE PRESENT IN FIJI AS WELL. SEE FIG. #7 FOR VARIOUS TYPES OF LUG
SOME PICTURES MAY BE PADDLE FORM RATHER THAN BANNA LEAF THE LINE BETWEEN THE TWO IS VERY CLOSE.
OLDER SAMOAN CARVED DESIGNS WERE NOT AS ORNATE AND DID NOT CONTAIN HUMAN FIGURES AS FOUND ON TONGAN CLUBS. THE DESIGNS ON THE OLD ONES WERE DEEPLY CARVED AND FILLED WITH WHITE LIME. THE DESIGNS OFTEN RESEMBLE THE TAVATAVA DESIGNS OF FIJI BUT AS IT IS A BASIC DESIGN MAY HAVE ORIGINATED INDEPENDENTLY IN SEVERAL PLACES. SEE PICTURES 8,9 &10
THE NEW WAY DESIGNS ARE BEING MADE TODAY ARE DIFFERENT THEY COAT THE CLUB IN BLACK AND THEN SCRATCH THE BLACK OFF DOWN TO THE WOOD MAKEING THE DESIGNS, WHITE LIME IS SELDOM USED THESE DAYS. THE NEW DESIGNS ARE MORE COMPLEX AND ATTRACTIVE THAN THE OLD IN SOME CASES BUT I PREFER THE OLD WAY, BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.

SEE PICTURES 11 & 12

VANDOO · 29th September 2013, 03:18 AM

THE PADDLE SHAPED CLUBS ( FOE, EQUALS PADDLE ) IN SAMOAN ARE ANOTHER FORM WITH VERY SIMULAR OR THE SAME FORM CLUBS FOUND IN TONGA AND FIJI AS WELL AS SAMOA. THERE ARE VARIATIONS IN THE FORM THOSE WITH A OVATE SHAPE AND POINTED ARE REFERED TO AS (AMUAMU ).
I THINK PICTURES 1 THRU 5 ARE OF THE AMUAMU FORM. CLUB #1 IS 3 FEET LONG.
#6. WALLACE ISLANDERS, SAMOA
# 7 & 8. PLATES OF THE VARIOUS PADDLE FORMS SOME MAY BE SAMOAN OR TONGAN.

KraVseR · 29th September 2013, 12:42 PM

6 picture shows a Samoan warriors?

VANDOO · 30th September 2013, 09:12 PM

I HAD THEM IN WITH SAMOA AS I HAVE SEEN WALLIS IS. CLUBS REFERED TO AS SAMOAN. BUT I DIDN'T RESEARCH FURTHER AND IT TURNS OUT THE WALLIS ISLANDS ARE NOT SAMOAN BUT LOCATED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE AREA BORDERING SAMOA, TONGA, FIJI, ECT. TOO LATE TO EDIT SO I WILL HAVE TO LEAVE THE PICTURE THERE.
THE CLUBS WOULD FIT IN THE PADDLE CATEGORY THIS FORM IS WIDELY DISTRIBUTED AND THERE ARE A LOT OF SMALLER HAND CLUBS IN THIS FORM AS WELL AS THE LONGER ONES.
SO I MIGHT AS WELL COVER WALLIS ISLANDS HERE. THE MAIN 3 ISLANDS ARE UVE'A MOST POPULATED, FUTUNA AND ALOFI. ALOFI IS UNPOPULATED BECAUSE REPORTEDLY THE CANNIBAL RESIDENTS OF FUTUNA ISLAND ATE THEM ALL IN ONE RAID IN THE 19 TH. CENTURY. I WONDER IF THEY SMOKED WEED AND GOT THE MUNCHIES? THATS A SCARY THOUGHT A TRIBE OF CANNIBALS WITH THE MUNCHIES

#1 EXAMPLE OF WALLIS ISLAND CLUB, 108.5 CM. LONG
PADDLE CLUBS USUALLY RANGE IN SIZE FROM 40 TO 47 INCHES.

VANDOO · 1st October 2013, 04:43 AM

THE REFRENCE I AM USING FOR SAMOA REFERS TO POLE CLUBS AS BILLET CLUBS AND SEPARATES THEM INTO TWO TYPES 1. ROUND BILLET CLUBS AS WE FOUND IN FIJI THEY ARE REFERED TO BY THE TONGAN NAME IN SAMOA ( POVAI)
2. FOUR SIDED BILLET CLUBS USUALLY IN SAMOA THE SIDES ARE NOT EQUAL TWO ARE NOT AS THICK AS THE OTHERS, SOME BEING CLOSER TO SQUARE THAN OTHERS. THIS FORM IS FOUND IN TONGA AND FIJI AS WELL. PERHAPS BOTH FORMS ARE REFERED TO AS POVAI IN SAMOA?
THE WOOD PREFERRED FOR MAKING CLUBS IN SAMOA WAS CALLED PAU BUT IRONWOOD WAS ALSO USED.
THE TWO FORMS OF BILLET CLUBS USUALLY FORMED A BLUNT END THE SQUARE FORMS OFTEN HAD A LUG AT THE PROXIMAL END.
PIC. #1 & 2 SQUARE FORM OF BILLET CLUB ,TONGA, FIJI AND SAMOA?
PIC. #3 & 4 CLOSE TO PALM STALK FORM BUT MAY FALL INTO BILLET FORM? 53 CM.LONG.
PIC. # 5 VARIOUS SAMOAN CLUBS THE FIRST TWO ON THE LEFT ARE POVAI.
PIC. #6 POVAI WITH HOLE AND LANYARD.

Billman · 1st October 2013, 09:38 AM

Hi, not my area of expertise - but one that I wander to occasionally as some of the Oceanic war clubs appear to be shaped like large wooden billhooks...

My query is did this shape exist before European explorers visited and settled the islands, or were they an attempt to copy an iron and steel tool they had seen in the hands of the 'white man'?????

VANDOO · 1st October 2013, 03:51 PM

THE FIRST PICTURE LOOKS TO BE A WOODEN COPY OF A MACHETE AND WAS NOT AROUND BEFORE CONTACT. THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME SIMULAR FORM OF WOODEN TOOL USED AS THE BLADE SHAPE SERVES WELL FOR VARIOUS CHORES.?
ACCORDING TO WHAT I HAVE READ THE MAORI CLUBS LIKE YOUR PICTURE #3 WAS IN USE BEFORE CONTACT WITH EUROPEANS. IT WAS ONE OF 3 BASIC FORMS OF SHORT CLUBS AND WAS CALLED WAHIKA.
THE 2ND PICTURE IS OF A SAMOAN NIFO OTI THERE WAS A CLUB FORM BEFORE CONTACT BUT THE EXAMPLE YOU SHOW, BECAUSE OF ITS SHAPE IS LONG AFTER CONTACT. ACCORDING TO WHAT I HAVE READ THE STEEL FORERUNNERS OF THIS FORM IS THE BLUBBER KNIVES USED BY WHALERS. IT HAD A BLADE MUCH LIKE YOU SEE HERE AND A HOOK USED TO DRAG THE CHUNKS OF BLUBBER AFTER THEY WERE CUT. BLUBBER IS TOO SLIPPERY AND GREASY TO MOVE BY HAND OR WITH TONGS SO HOOKS AND HOLES WITH TOGGLES WERE USED.
THE SAMOANS LIKED SHARP STEEL AS A WEAPON AND A LARGE STEEL BLADE WAS MUCH MORE FORMIDIBLE THAN WOODEN CLUBS. THE BLADE FORM MAY HAVE BEEN A REGULAR WHALEING TOOL OR COULD HAVE BEEN MODEFIED TO FASHON IT WITH A HOOK LIKE THE NIFO OTI CLUB AS THE NATIVES PREFERRED? TRADE WAS ESTABLISHED AND WHALERS BROUGHT EXTRA BLADES TO TRADE IN SAMOA FOR PROVISIONS AND FAVORS. THEY WERE USED FOR WORK AS WELL AS WAR AND CEREMONIE.
THE FORM LATER WAS USED FOR THE KNIFE DANCE AND STILL LATER THE FIRE KNIFE DANCE. THE WOODEN ONES LIKE YOUR EXAMPLE WERE MOSTLY FOR TOURISTS OR USED FOR CEREMONIES. SOME OLDER WOODEN ONES MAY HAVE BEEN USED IN BATTLE BY THOSE WHO COULD NOT AFFORD A STEEL ONE.

UNFORTUNATELY I CAN'T FIND A PICTURE OF THIS COMBINATION KNIFE AND HOOKED WHALEING TOOL. I FIND LONG KNIVES AND SPADES AND HOOKS ON POLES BUT NOTHING LOOKING LIKE THE SAMOAN KNIFE. BUT SOMEONE WROTE IT DOWN SO IT MUST BE TRUE

I FOUND THIS PICTURE OF WHALEING TOOLS.

29th September 2013, 03:18 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE PADDLE SHAPED CLUBS ( FOE, EQUALS PADDLE ) IN SAMOAN ARE ANOTHER FORM WITH VERY SIMULAR OR THE SAME FORM CLUBS FOUND IN TONGA AND FIJI AS WELL AS SAMOA. THERE ARE VARIATIONS IN THE FORM THOSE WITH A OVATE SHAPE AND POINTED ARE REFERED TO AS (AMUAMU ). I THINK PICTURES 1 THRU 5 ARE OF THE AMUAMU FORM. CLUB #1 IS 3 FEET LONG. #6. WALLACE ISLANDERS, SAMOA # 7 & 8. PLATES OF THE VARIOUS PADDLE FORMS SOME MAY BE SAMOAN OR TONGAN. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 29th September 2013 at 04:07 AM.

30th September 2013, 09:12 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAD THEM IN WITH SAMOA AS I HAVE SEEN WALLIS IS. CLUBS REFERED TO AS SAMOAN. BUT I DIDN'T RESEARCH FURTHER AND IT TURNS OUT THE WALLIS ISLANDS ARE NOT SAMOAN BUT LOCATED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE AREA BORDERING SAMOA, TONGA, FIJI, ECT. TOO LATE TO EDIT SO I WILL HAVE TO LEAVE THE PICTURE THERE. THE CLUBS WOULD FIT IN THE PADDLE CATEGORY THIS FORM IS WIDELY DISTRIBUTED AND THERE ARE A LOT OF SMALLER HAND CLUBS IN THIS FORM AS WELL AS THE LONGER ONES. SO I MIGHT AS WELL COVER WALLIS ISLANDS HERE. THE MAIN 3 ISLANDS ARE UVE'A MOST POPULATED, FUTUNA AND ALOFI. ALOFI IS UNPOPULATED BECAUSE REPORTEDLY THE CANNIBAL RESIDENTS OF FUTUNA ISLAND ATE THEM ALL IN ONE RAID IN THE 19 TH. CENTURY. I WONDER IF THEY SMOKED WEED AND GOT THE MUNCHIES? THATS A SCARY THOUGHT A TRIBE OF CANNIBALS WITH THE MUNCHIES #1 EXAMPLE OF WALLIS ISLAND CLUB, 108.5 CM. LONG PADDLE CLUBS USUALLY RANGE IN SIZE FROM 40 TO 47 INCHES. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 1st October 2013 at 04:34 PM.

1st October 2013, 04:43 AM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE REFRENCE I AM USING FOR SAMOA REFERS TO POLE CLUBS AS BILLET CLUBS AND SEPARATES THEM INTO TWO TYPES 1. ROUND BILLET CLUBS AS WE FOUND IN FIJI THEY ARE REFERED TO BY THE TONGAN NAME IN SAMOA ( POVAI) 2. FOUR SIDED BILLET CLUBS USUALLY IN SAMOA THE SIDES ARE NOT EQUAL TWO ARE NOT AS THICK AS THE OTHERS, SOME BEING CLOSER TO SQUARE THAN OTHERS. THIS FORM IS FOUND IN TONGA AND FIJI AS WELL. PERHAPS BOTH FORMS ARE REFERED TO AS POVAI IN SAMOA? THE WOOD PREFERRED FOR MAKING CLUBS IN SAMOA WAS CALLED PAU BUT IRONWOOD WAS ALSO USED. THE TWO FORMS OF BILLET CLUBS USUALLY FORMED A BLUNT END THE SQUARE FORMS OFTEN HAD A LUG AT THE PROXIMAL END. PIC. #1 & 2 SQUARE FORM OF BILLET CLUB ,TONGA, FIJI AND SAMOA? PIC. #3 & 4 CLOSE TO PALM STALK FORM BUT MAY FALL INTO BILLET FORM? 53 CM.LONG. PIC. # 5 VARIOUS SAMOAN CLUBS THE FIRST TWO ON THE LEFT ARE POVAI. PIC. #6 POVAI WITH HOLE AND LANYARD. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 1st October 2013 at 05:10 AM.

28th September 2013, 04:57 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE BASIC FORM USED IN MAKEING MOST CLUBS IS THE COCONUT LEAFSTALK THE NEXT BASIC FORM IS SAID TO BE THE BANNA LEAF ( LAUFA'I ). THE MAIN DIFFERENCE IS THE BANNA LEAF HAS A ROUNDED STRIKING END NOT FLAT AS IN COCONUT STALK FORMS. I AM HAVING TROUBLE FINDING A BASIC PICTURE OF THIS FORM AS IT AND THE PADDLE CLUBS ARE SO SIMULAR IN MANY WAYS. 1.BANNA LEAF TO SHOW GENERAL SHAPE. 2. AN EXAMPLE OF COCONUT STALK AND BANNA LEAF FOR COMPARISON. I THINK THESE ARE TONGAN IN ORIGIN BUT MAY BE SAMOAN . 3. THE END LOOKS LIKE BANNA LEAF FORM BUT THE REST IS MODIFIED HEAVY TONGAN INFLUENCE OR TONGAN MADE?. 4. SEVERAL CLUBS THE ONES WITH ROUNDED END ARE BANNA LEAF THE FLAT ENDS ARE COCONUT STALK. ALL ARE TONGAN STATE CLUBS 5. A FEW MORE OF THE GENERAL BANNA LEAF FORM I DON'T HAVE PICTURES OF CERTIFIED SAMOAN EXAMPLES OF THIS FORM AND AM HAVING TO USE TONGAN EXAMPLES FOR ILLISTRATION SO WILL MOVE ON TO OTHER BASIC FEATURES OF SAMOAN CLUBS. TONGAN AND SAMOAN CLUBS HAVE A FLAIR TO THE BUTT (PROXIMAL END) WITH NO FLANGES AS FOUND IN SOME CLUBS FROM FIJI. SEE FIGURE #6 TONGAN AND SAMOAN CLUBS OFTEN HAVE LUGS ON THE PROXIMAL END FOR ATTACHING A CORD FOR HANGING OR AS A LANYARD. THIS LUG IS NOT FOUND ON FIJI CLUBS BUT AS TONGAN INFLUENCE WAS STRONG THEY ARE PRESENT IN FIJI AS WELL. SEE FIG. #7 FOR VARIOUS TYPES OF LUG SOME PICTURES MAY BE PADDLE FORM RATHER THAN BANNA LEAF THE LINE BETWEEN THE TWO IS VERY CLOSE. OLDER SAMOAN CARVED DESIGNS WERE NOT AS ORNATE AND DID NOT CONTAIN HUMAN FIGURES AS FOUND ON TONGAN CLUBS. THE DESIGNS ON THE OLD ONES WERE DEEPLY CARVED AND FILLED WITH WHITE LIME. THE DESIGNS OFTEN RESEMBLE THE TAVATAVA DESIGNS OF FIJI BUT AS IT IS A BASIC DESIGN MAY HAVE ORIGINATED INDEPENDENTLY IN SEVERAL PLACES. SEE PICTURES 8,9 &10 THE NEW WAY DESIGNS ARE BEING MADE TODAY ARE DIFFERENT THEY COAT THE CLUB IN BLACK AND THEN SCRATCH THE BLACK OFF DOWN TO THE WOOD MAKEING THE DESIGNS, WHITE LIME IS SELDOM USED THESE DAYS. THE NEW DESIGNS ARE MORE COMPLEX AND ATTRACTIVE THAN THE OLD IN SOME CASES BUT I PREFER THE OLD WAY, BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER. SEE PICTURES 11 & 12 Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 28th September 2013 at 06:13 PM.

29th September 2013, 12:42 PM	#3
KraVseR Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ukraine Posts: 128	6 picture shows a Samoan warriors?

1st October 2013, 09:38 AM	#6
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Hi, not my area of expertise - but one that I wander to occasionally as some of the Oceanic war clubs appear to be shaped like large wooden billhooks... My query is did this shape exist before European explorers visited and settled the islands, or were they an attempt to copy an iron and steel tool they had seen in the hands of the 'white man'????? Attached Images

1st October 2013, 03:51 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE FIRST PICTURE LOOKS TO BE A WOODEN COPY OF A MACHETE AND WAS NOT AROUND BEFORE CONTACT. THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME SIMULAR FORM OF WOODEN TOOL USED AS THE BLADE SHAPE SERVES WELL FOR VARIOUS CHORES.? ACCORDING TO WHAT I HAVE READ THE MAORI CLUBS LIKE YOUR PICTURE #3 WAS IN USE BEFORE CONTACT WITH EUROPEANS. IT WAS ONE OF 3 BASIC FORMS OF SHORT CLUBS AND WAS CALLED WAHIKA. THE 2ND PICTURE IS OF A SAMOAN NIFO OTI THERE WAS A CLUB FORM BEFORE CONTACT BUT THE EXAMPLE YOU SHOW, BECAUSE OF ITS SHAPE IS LONG AFTER CONTACT. ACCORDING TO WHAT I HAVE READ THE STEEL FORERUNNERS OF THIS FORM IS THE BLUBBER KNIVES USED BY WHALERS. IT HAD A BLADE MUCH LIKE YOU SEE HERE AND A HOOK USED TO DRAG THE CHUNKS OF BLUBBER AFTER THEY WERE CUT. BLUBBER IS TOO SLIPPERY AND GREASY TO MOVE BY HAND OR WITH TONGS SO HOOKS AND HOLES WITH TOGGLES WERE USED. THE SAMOANS LIKED SHARP STEEL AS A WEAPON AND A LARGE STEEL BLADE WAS MUCH MORE FORMIDIBLE THAN WOODEN CLUBS. THE BLADE FORM MAY HAVE BEEN A REGULAR WHALEING TOOL OR COULD HAVE BEEN MODEFIED TO FASHON IT WITH A HOOK LIKE THE NIFO OTI CLUB AS THE NATIVES PREFERRED? TRADE WAS ESTABLISHED AND WHALERS BROUGHT EXTRA BLADES TO TRADE IN SAMOA FOR PROVISIONS AND FAVORS. THEY WERE USED FOR WORK AS WELL AS WAR AND CEREMONIE. THE FORM LATER WAS USED FOR THE KNIFE DANCE AND STILL LATER THE FIRE KNIFE DANCE. THE WOODEN ONES LIKE YOUR EXAMPLE WERE MOSTLY FOR TOURISTS OR USED FOR CEREMONIES. SOME OLDER WOODEN ONES MAY HAVE BEEN USED IN BATTLE BY THOSE WHO COULD NOT AFFORD A STEEL ONE. UNFORTUNATELY I CAN'T FIND A PICTURE OF THIS COMBINATION KNIFE AND HOOKED WHALEING TOOL. I FIND LONG KNIVES AND SPADES AND HOOKS ON POLES BUT NOTHING LOOKING LIKE THE SAMOAN KNIFE. BUT SOMEONE WROTE IT DOWN SO IT MUST BE TRUE I FOUND THIS PICTURE OF WHALEING TOOLS. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 1st October 2013 at 05:01 PM.